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Topic: Bills in sequence  (Read 9077 times)
Tumbomike
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« on: October 10, 2011, 06:35:56 pm »

I have 10, 1937 Osborne-Towers $1 bills in 2 - 5 sequence series. These are in AU or maybe UNC condition. Is there an extra value for these because these have sequential serial numbers?
friedsquid
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 08:32:02 pm »

I have 10, 1937 Osborne-Towers $1 bills in 2 - 5 sequence series. These are in AU or maybe UNC condition. Is there an extra value for these because these have sequential serial numbers?
Personally I would say No



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Tumbomike
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 06:49:38 pm »

thanks Friedsquid.
Bruxi
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 09:41:02 pm »

Some collectors do pay more for bills in sequence (I know I do).  I admit that its not really rational, but it's more rare to have bills in sequence, and scarcity = higher value.
friedsquid
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 09:56:41 pm »

Quote
but it's more rare to have bills in sequence, and scarcity = higher value.

Ask any bricker how scare it is to have 1000's of notes in sequence...they would probably tell you that it is pretty common...in fact likely the norm unless there are inserts or CBN bricks :(
In the case of Bird $2 notes, or 1973 multicolor $1 notes again as common as they come. They are all over the place
And having a large run of rare notes in sequence usually tends to bring down value rather than increase it...the more notes available the less scarce and the lower the value..and likely the lower the demand...
we have seen this time and time again...



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mmars
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 10:45:43 pm »

Fred is right, sequential notes are overrated.  Most uncirculated notes come from sequences.  Registers of surviving old series notes corroborate this.  Also, sequential notes tend to generate strong bids at auction simply because there are enough misguided buyers who think sequential must = uncirculated.  But this is often not the case at all.  Just as one note can be damaged or mishandled, a sequence of notes can also end up in less than stellar condition.  I think some people offer stern prices on sequential circulated notes because they know they can clean/press the notes and offer them up like they are close to uncirculated, taking advantage of buyers making poor decisions.

BTW rarer does not equal more valuable.  It's often the opposite which is true.  It's demand that decides pricing, not supply (unless you're on the pricing panel, ha ha).

    No hay banda  
Bruxi
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 03:37:47 pm »

Mike - your question was if these are worth a premium.  They are.  All other things being equal, 1937 bills in sequence sell for more than the same number of random notes.  This is because an additional market exists for sequential notes that increases their value.  Yet the value of the individual notes is in no way discounted by collectors who do not value sequential notes - thus your premium.

You don't need to listen to me though.  Study how 1937 bills sell on ebay.  Every listing of sequential 1937 bills draws quite a bit of attention and collectors pay a premium (again, all other things being equal).  You will see lots of examples of the extra interest in sequential 1937 bills if you look at current and completed listings and do the math to compare value to singles of comparable notes.  Even 2 in sequence attracts more of a premium.  Compare these with singles in the same condition, prefix etc. you will see what I mean.  Make sure to do the research and get the facts - the market bears the true value.

And if anyone wants to trade me sequential 1937 bills for the same number of singles, let me know.  I won't be holding my breath though!
walktothewater
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 06:43:41 pm »

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Study how 1937 bills sell on ebay.  Every listing of sequential 1937 bills draws quite a bit of attention and collectors pay a premium (again, all other things being equal).  You will see lots of examples of the extra interest in sequential 1937 bills if you look at current and completed listings and do the math to compare value to singles of comparable notes.  Even 2 in sequence attracts more of a premium.  Compare these with singles in the same condition, prefix etc. you will see what I mean.  Make sure to do the research and get the facts - the market bears the true value.

While I will agree with ibrooks that sequential 37's and Devil Faces do draw greater attention on ebay,  I cannot agree with his conclusions based on my own experience.  I bought 3 sequential 1937 notes from a dealer for about $10 less per note just a few years ago.  In fact, I've always managed to get a discount (& expect a discount) when buying sequential notes and rarely see the opposite yet I know some (especially beginners) pay premium.  Sequential notes have been collected for as long as notes have been printed and most seasoned collectors/dealers know this- and if they're at all tuned into what the market will bear- will likely sell them individually, and therefore that might be why a few newbies insist on paying premium.   If a dealer knows you are not a newbie (& you're not drooling over the run of notes he has for sale) it is more likely you will get a discount (even on inserts and sequential radars!) Try making an offer and I think you'll be surprised.

Try selling your notes for a premium.  I did this with three 1954 uncirculated $5.00 several years back (when the market was better) and was given less then what I would have got if I had separated them.  I had these notes for 15 years and sold them for about the same as I paid for them since I knew nothing about collecting paper money when I bought them 30 years ago (& knew little about selling too).   

Although its a natural assumption- you cannot consider eBay a litmus for what the market will bear.  People are still selling and buying $1000 notes, new polymer $100, and other common paper hardly worth most dealers nor collector's attention.  I believe that many bidders are nipping at sequential runs only because they're hyped up by the ebay seller (typically).

However, all that I wrote earlier can go out the window for some rarer notes, particularly Osborne Tower 37's and DF's in small sequential runs.  I don't understand why but Devil Faces still seem to draw a big following even though they're really quite common.  The Osborne/Tower notes are another story and seem to always draw a great following no matter how many you sell together.

friedsquid
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2012, 07:21:34 pm »

Quote
Sequential notes have been collected for as long as notes have been printed and most seasoned collectors/dealers know this- and if they're at all tuned into what the market will bear- will likely sell them individually, and therefore that might be why a few newbies insist on paying premium.

I have to agree with this since I believe it to be true. Many newbies have asked me for runs of notes because they somehow believe that runs are rare even when you are talking about the current Journey Series.  The fact is that if someone has no idea or concept of how notes can be obtained (ie bricks) and only see what they normally get in banks or ATM's a run is not as common to them as it is to others.
There are many examples of notes that were considered rare/scarce/tough to find, yet as soon as someone finds a run of them they tend to seem more abundant and less desirable as they once did....I believe it was not long ago that someone reported having a run of a dozen or so *N/Y notes.....as soon as the number available is greater than one thought the price seems to decrease



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walktothewater
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2012, 07:45:49 pm »

Quote
There are many examples of notes that were considered rare/scarce/tough to find, yet as soon as someone finds a run of them they tend to seem more abundant and less desirable as they once did....I believe it was not long ago that someone reported having a run of a dozen or so *N/Y notes.....as soon as the number available is greater than one thought the price seems to decrease

Not just the price decreases- but typically so does the demand.
 
A note I would definitely shy away from is the Devils BC-29a Coyne-Towers H/A or BC-29b Beattie-Coyne H/A change-over as I've seen about as many as the BC-37bA-i $1.00 *B/M  or the BC-38bA $2.00 *B/B!

Many collectors get wise to what's abundant (there are too many examples to list here) and so the demand drops like a stone.  I doubt the *N/Y is abundant but there are notes that we have not seen sequential runs, or even higher grades for a long time, which will generate much more interest.

The power of this forum, the Internet auctions, and the more revised/well researched Charltons catalogues have conspired against the sequential collectors desire to pay and get premiums for sequential runs. 

A sequential run of notes is nice to have (esp in 3's) but I would be cautious of assuming they're all UNC, that others will pay premium (just because you did), etc. Just know what you are getting yourself into and do not assume that selling a set together will net you more then if you had sold them separately.

To the original poster Tumbomlike- you may wish to test our theories by selling your 2 set note individually and selling 3 together.  Once you've completed the sale- ask yourself if you would have done better to sell separately or in runs...   Please keep us posted how it turns out!

wdwkr
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 10:04:22 pm »

I am brand new to this forum and have only recently begun to develop an interest in collecting paper money.

I have been curious about sequential series of notes (I received a few from relatives when I was young) and this is the first thread on the subject that I have found.

I seems to me that regardless of the quality of any particular sequential series of notes, the relative rarity of these sequential notes compared to three un-sequential notes of comparable quality, would command some degree of premium. I realize that the value of these or any other notes relies on demand and a willing buyer.

The increased selling prices of sequential series of notes, on eBay and other sites, seems to confirm that they command a higher price, at least with some buyers. As with all coins, tokens, and paper money the value rises or declines based on what willing buyers are prepared to pay.

Just my thoughts.
tmort
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 07:14:37 pm »

I agree, a sequential run will carry a premium. Especially in the older bills.



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Bruxi
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 10:58:23 pm »

The answer to this question is not a matter of opinion or preference, only fact.  Study completed sales on ebay - esp. lots of bills that are sequential vs. non-sequential.  If you do the analysis, you will see the premium that exists.  You will also see the other factors that govern the size of this premium, like age and denomination.
Sonofzzoro
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2015, 11:34:20 am »

If they are special notes, like replacement notes where there are not many of them, would there be a premium to consecutive notes ?
friedsquid
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2015, 07:02:53 am »

If they are special notes, like replacement notes where there are not many of them, would there be a premium to consecutive notes ?
supply and demand makes the difference...is their something particular you are referring to?



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