Author
Topic: Canadian Banknote Co. Test Note  (Read 37350 times)
Manada
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
« on: August 21, 2015, 06:58:05 pm »

I just recently picked up this beauty. Anyone have any idea as to how common this note is?


But always, there remained the discipline of steel. - Conan the Barbarian
Seth
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 07:42:37 pm »

It looks like a prototype produced by CBN for the Bank of Canada (BoC's logo in silver on the upper right.) Alexander Graham Bell is the portrait.

So what's the story? I've never heard of this this. Can you post a photo of the back?

Track your Canadian currency online!

http://www.whereswilly.com
Manada
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 08:41:56 pm »

Unfortunately I don't have a story to accompany the note as per Friedsquids link it was purchased from a German seller on Ebay. Here is the back which is blank except for the security planchettes.


But always, there remained the discipline of steel. - Conan the Barbarian
Manada
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2015, 11:20:32 pm »

It looks like a prototype produced by CBN for the Bank of Canada (BoC's logo in silver on the upper right.) Alexander Graham Bell is the portrait.


It's actually very similar to the birds gold foil with predominant blue, purple, and green depending how it's tilted.

But always, there remained the discipline of steel. - Conan the Barbarian
Seth
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2015, 01:33:02 pm »

It would be interesting to see what the Bank of Canada would have to say about this, considering its trademarked logo appears on the note. That would indicate that the BoC had some involvement in its production or use.

Track your Canadian currency online!

http://www.whereswilly.com
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2015, 10:58:08 pm »

I have 7 Bell test notes attributed in The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes - 10th Edition.  I believe I have added two more since then.  There are different colors and different security features in the top right of these notes.  One has no feature at all and has a reverse which is not blank I show front of note here.  By the way other CBNC test notes (all more rare than the Bell notes) include two with Queen Victoria (one dated 1890) and one value 20 with a girl's bust and holographic strip designed by 3D AG.

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 11:14:30 pm »

Here's the front of the note.

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 11:47:06 pm »

The second note you list here on auction at Ebay was printed by Goebel.  From The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes -
"Established in 1851, Goebel is one of Europe’s manufacturers of web-fed printing machines for the printing and converting industry, including one pass intaglio and offset printing."
you can see the note here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Banknote-Specimen-Test-Banknote-Canadian-Bank-Note-Company-C-Bell-intaglio-/201386801991?nma=true&si=A32SM77V4ZVi%252FOvoxXx54A9%252F%252FqQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


and another variety

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPECIMEN-TEST-NOTE-20-25-100-CANADIAN-DOLLAR-PRINTER-CBN-IN-OTTAWA-UNC-/261966947533?nma=true&si=A32SM77V4ZVi%252FOvoxXx54A9%252F%252FqQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 01:24:16 am »


IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2015, 01:25:52 am »

Here's the reverse of the test note.

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2015, 01:44:16 am »

If anyone is interested, there are five Canadian firms which have issued test notes.
BA Banknote Group (As of 1999 a subsidiary of Giesecke & Devrient. Acquired by Canadian Banknote Company in 2013)
British American Bank Note Company ( It acquired the Canada Banknote Company in 1891)
Canadian Bank Note Company
Domtar
Silba International (Patent expired on Duranote & is now defunct)

Here a pdf of all known printer related firms producing test notes, a sample note, & the number of known test notes from my web page on test notes.
http://currency_den.tripod.com/testnotes/ptnl.pdf

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
Bob
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 05:14:50 pm »

Very interesting web site, but the Canada Bank Note Co. item is misattributed.  There was no connection between Canada Bank Note Co. and Canadian Bank Note Co., they were entirely different firms.  Canada B.N. ceased to exist 30 or more years before CBN was spun off from ABN.

Collecting Canadian since 1955
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 10:02:35 pm »

If anyone is interested, there are five Canadian firms which have issued test notes.
BA Banknote Group (As of 1999 a subsidiary of Giesecke & Devrient. Acquired by Canadian Banknote Company in 2013)


It is public knowledge that CBN acquired the building that was owned by BABN in 2013. Is that what you mean or do you have some other information that says that whole company was bought over as opposed to only the building and perhaps some printing equipment?

Public disclosure indicates that Bank of Canada is using BAI (which is what BABN has been known as) for its single note inspection contract through to 2018. If your information about BAI being bought by CBN is indeed correct then would that mean that CBN has now taken over the single note inspection contract?




Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 11:57:59 pm »

Thanks so much for vetting these firms out.  I will add the Canada Bank Note Company as a separate entity in the 11th Edition, due for release in the spring of '16.

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2015, 12:15:42 am »

As far as I know, you are correct.  BAI is still owned by G&D, though they ceased printing operations after 2012.  I hope they were able to keep a significant part of the workforce for the sub-contract to Bank of Canada.

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2015, 03:37:17 pm »

I have split the Canadian Bank Note Company and Canada Bank Note Company test notes for the catalog.  In so doing, I found an interesting test note.  As you can see, it is for Canada Bank Note Company, but dated 1892.  British American Bank Note Company bought out Canada Bank Note Company in 1891!!  At auction, the note nearly doubled estimated value and sold for $325 (Canadian).  Hope you enjoy.


IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
Bob
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2015, 09:30:35 am »

I think it is an advertising piece, not testing anything, but very nice nonetheless.

Collecting Canadian since 1955
Bob
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2015, 09:59:16 am »

There is a very scholarly paper on Canada Bank Note Co. in the 1998 CPMS Journal by Christopher Ryan.  He makes it clear that the company was wound up in 1894, not 1891.  The machinery and merchandise were purchased by BABN in that year.

Collecting Canadian since 1955
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2015, 02:41:24 pm »

Thanks so much for the correction on the sale date.  I will update my records. 
For your information, I include test, promotional, advertising, house and trial notes in The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes.  Indeed, most modern printers' "test" notes are not testing anything, just showing off their wares to new and potential customers.  A notable exception is De La Rue using two of their test notes to obtain a US patent on testing wear of banknotes.  I intend on writing a small article on this, probably for the International Bank Note Society.  Even in this example they used the test notes as promotional and advertising purposes as well.

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2015, 10:31:14 pm »

Thanks so much for the correction on the sale date.  I will update my records. 
For your information, I include test, promotional, advertising, house and trial notes in The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes.  Indeed, most modern printers' "test" notes are not testing anything, just showing off their wares to new and potential customers.  A notable exception is De La Rue using two of their test notes to obtain a US patent on testing wear of banknotes.  I intend on writing a small article on this, probably for the International Bank Note Society.  Even in this example they used the test notes as promotional and advertising purposes as well.

Thx to Bob, Manada and currencyden for explaining test notes in this context.

Is there a way this type of notes are differentiated from the "test" notes issued by Banks. It is known as a fact that BoC ran many trials prior to the issue of frontier series and most likely has run trials as part of circulating notes.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Seth
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 935
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2015, 02:05:46 pm »

I agree that it is confusing to use the term "test note" to refer to both: 1) non-legal-tender prototype, production trial, and example notes  that are never intended for circulation, and 2) ordinary-looking legal tender notes that are released by a central bank into active circulation to test a new feature (ink, paper, etc.)

I favor reserving the term "test note" for the latter (1954 S/R and 1973 EXA notes as an example) and calling the former something else.

Track your Canadian currency online!

http://www.whereswilly.com
Bob
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 515
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2015, 05:30:11 pm »

I'm with Seth on this question.  I'm reminded of the argument Humpty Dumpty had with Alice (in Wonderland):
'There's glory for you!'
'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'
For clarity, there is much to be said for adherence to the established meanings of test notes, advertising notes, and so on.

Collecting Canadian since 1955
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2015, 09:57:09 pm »

We've had a similar discussion at the International Banknote Society forum.  Both Ebay and Delcampe - who have the most printers' test notes listed,  also have a plethora of made for collector notes.  I personally use exclusion words to weed about half of these out.  By inserting - trial, private, training with the phrase "test note",  the list is more manageable.  Most every modern printers' note used for promotional use is called a test note on Ebay and Delcampe.  The older such notes are often referred to as promotional or advertising note, usually on collectible specific auction houses.  Even if I wish it wasn't so,  I don't believe this duality of the test note term is going away.

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2019, 02:50:15 pm »

It is public knowledge that CBN acquired the building that was owned by BABN in 2013. Is that what you mean or do you have some other information that says that whole company was bought over as opposed to only the building and perhaps some printing equipment?

Public disclosure indicates that Bank of Canada is using BAI (which is what BABN has been known as) for its single note inspection contract through to 2018. If your information about BAI being bought by CBN is indeed correct then would that mean that CBN has now taken over the single note inspection contract?
This is very late for an update.  CBN acquired the BABN building as everyone knows.  The Bank of Canada acquired printing plates: "In May 2013, staff of the Bank of Canada Museum visited BABN and were able to select for the National Currency Collection more than 650 steel dies (small, engraved metal or “intaglio” plates) and other production tools formerly used by the company to prepare the intaglio printing plates. The group included machine etched borders or lathework and numerals or counters. But the bulk of the selection consisted of hand engraved images of landscapes and people. Most are quite small, measuring roughly four by three inches. These were the heart of the security printer’s trade."

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
currencyden
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Currency Den
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2019, 03:01:03 pm »

So, it turns out the original test note for this discussion was used for testing.  Canadian Bank Note Company applied for a US patent on September 27, 2002 and published on April 1, 2004 using this note for their example.  The patent was regarding latent images.  No April Fools jokes please....

IBNS Member 9555
Author: The Catalog of Printers' Test Notes
Author: The Catalog of ATM Test Notes
 

Login with username, password and session length