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Topic: RCNA Auction 2018  (Read 368 times)
AL-Bob
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« on: August 06, 2018, 10:24:50 pm »

Anyone bidding in the auction?  Here are a few highlights that I saw.  I thought estimates were awfully high though.  Discussion welcome...

https://auctions.canadiancoinsandpapermoney.com/auction/64/rcna-auction

edit: Attachments were not showing up in first post... reposted below
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 10:54:27 pm by AL-Bob »
AL-Bob
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 10:28:21 pm »

#157
1878 $1 DC-8b #113243, PCGS F15. Rare Scalloped borders.
Sold for $4887.50


#173
1912 $5 DC-21c #B471772, PMG Gem UNC66EPQ. A sublime example in top condition.
Sold for $9440


#209
1954 $1000 BC-44a #AK0033739, CCCS UNC65. Rare Beattie-Coyne signatures in gem condition.
Estimate: $12000 - $13000
Sold for $7670


#213
1954 $1000 Bc-44e #AK2137531, PMG UNC66EPQ. Scarce this nice.
Estimate: $5500 - $7500
Sold for $4720


#239
ERROR Note; 2002 $5 BC-62a #AOB7350221, PCGS UNC66PPQ. Inverted Face Printing.
Estimate: $3000 - $6000
Sold for $5900


#282
1954 $1 BC-37cA #*VV2780000, PCGS AU50PPQ. Rare replacement
Estimate: $5500 - $6000
Sold for $3835


#285
1973 $1 BC-46aA #*MD2724999, PCGS VF20. Only a few examples known. Worth a premium bid.
Estimate: $7000 - $9000
Sold for $7080


#289A
1971 $10 BC-49aA #*DE9614656 Nice VF-EF example. Problem free. A lovely example.
Estimate: $3000 - $3500
Sold for $2300
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 10:35:23 pm by AL-Bob »
AL-Bob
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 10:49:13 pm »

#367
The Farmers Bank of Rustico; 1872 $2 #05404 CH-290-12-04, PMG VG8. Only 9 known.
Estimate: $4000 - $5000
Unsold


#369
The Bank of Hamilton; 1914 $50 #013280, BCS F18. Designated with holes, tears and writing.
Estimate: $8000 - $9000
Unsold


#386
The Royal Bank of Canada; 1909 $20 #078393 CH-630-10-04-22, PMG VF25 Net. Minor restorations and slight micut top right corner. A rare note with only 10 known to exist.
Estimate: $4500 - $7500
Sold for $3245


#388
La Banque de St. Hyacinthe; 1880 $5 #39104 Remainder CH-645-12-02R, PCGS Superb Gem UNC67PPQ.
Estimate: $9000 - $10000
Sold for $7670


#395
The Weyburn Security Bank; 1911 $5 #88865 CH-805-10-02, PMG VF30. Very scarce and popular bank. Minor ink smear
Estimate: $17000 - $18000
Unsold


#396
The Weyburn Security Bank; 1911 $20 #28926 CH-805-10-06, VF or better for grade. A lovely example.
Estimate: $30000 - $35000
Sold for $34220
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 10:39:38 pm by AL-Bob »
AL-Bob
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 10:53:10 pm »

#89
1935 $2 BC-4 #F351501, PMG CH UNC64. Scarce FRENCH TEXT. From the Wildlife Museum Collection.
Estimate: $10500 - $12500
Sold for $8850


#91
1935 $5 BC-6 #F378658, CCCS CH UNC64. Scarce FRENCH TEXT. From the Wildlife Museum Collection.
Estimate: $10000 - $11000
Sold for $7670


#93
1935 $25 BC-11 #A009026, PMG CH UNC64. From the Wildlife Museum Collection.
Estimate: $30000 - $32500
Sold for $21240


#94
1935 $25 BC-12 #F002627, CCCS UNC62. RARE FRENCH TEXT EXAMPLE.From the Wildlife Museum Collection.
Estimate: $30000 - $32500
Sold for $23010


#97
1935 $100 BC-15 #A14998 PCGS AU58PPQ. Consecutive note in next lot. From the Wildlife Museum Collection.
Estimate: $14000 - $15000
Sold for $9775


#98
1935 $100 BC-15 #A14999 PMG AU50EPQ. Consecutive note in next lot. From the Wildlife Museum Collection.
Estimate: $11000 - $12000
Sold for $7475


#99
1935 $100 BC-15 #A15000 PMG AU53EPQ. Consecutive note from previous lots. From the Wildlife Museum Collection.
Estimate: $12500 - $13500
Unsold
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 10:43:08 pm by AL-Bob »
walktothewater
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 05:34:28 pm »

I watched (made a few bids) the cheaper (English) "cousins" of some of the 35's go way north of what I would have paid for an "original" note and many of them lacked that designation during their first round at the hammer this year (was it at the Heritage Auction?). 

This screamed US dominated coin collectors bidding & that's simply too rich for my blood. No one seemed to take into account the buyer's premiums when the "Wildlife Museum Collection" first came out.  Now they're out again and everyone will have to factor this in plus taxes at this RCNA auction. The rare *V/V & $5 error look promising (don't collect the earlier bank notes so don't know much about them).

AL-Bob
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 09:39:01 pm »

It seems like we keep seeing the same (non-original) 1935 notes over and over.  I'm astounded at how much they sell for considering how often they keep showing up.  If they were Original Uncs , no doubt they would go for multiples of those prices though.  Here's a French $2 PCGS 66 PPQ that sold for 19,975 USD in 2014.  I thought there was a more recent sale that went for 20/25,000 USD but I can't find it now.

https://currency.ha.com/itm/world-paper-money/bc-4-2-1935/a/3525-21081.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115

The three consecutive $100s are a cool novelty but not really at those prices and that condition.

The chartered stuff is nothing too spectacular.  The Weyburn notes are priced ridiculously high.  I know there are a few that have sold for high prices but seriously they are not that rare and these are not the nicest ones out there.  The high opening bids suggests the seller knows these are overbought and is playing it safe.

I'm pretty sure we saw that Beattie-Coyne $1000 not too long ago.  If it's the same note I'm thinking of it looked to be washed pretty heavily on examination.  You could see the surface of the paper had little bits pealing off and you can clearly see in the photo frayed corners which are very suggestive.

I'm very curious to see where the Thiessen-Crow $1000 ends up.  These were once thought to be scarce but seem to have flooded the market recently (or maybe that's old news).  I would be much more excited to see a nice original Beattie-Rasminsky / Bouey-Rasminsky or Beattie-Coyne (just not the one offered) right now.
walktothewater
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 09:20:46 am »

Quote
I'm very curious to see where the Thiessen-Crow $1000 ends up.  These were once thought to be scarce but seem to have flooded the market recently (or maybe that's old news).  I would be much more excited to see a nice original Beattie-Rasminsky / Bouey-Rasminsky or Beattie-Coyne (just not the one offered) right now.

My problem with higher denominations is that so many go straight to the SDB so too many are in high grade (or should be in high grade).  They're strictly a future investment.

On discussing the govt's recent decision to demonetize this denomination, a number of collectors at yesterday's workshop said that they had relatives reveal to them that they had several (10-50) $1000 notes stashed in their SDBs. Most of these were from older relatives with the 1954 series too. Stephen Bell also mentioned seeing a larger than usual number of these (to certify) so if you really want one now is the time to buy the top grade you can find (unless you want it just for amusement sake). 

AL-Bob
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 10:59:40 pm »

Just a quick update...

It wasn't a huge surprise that the 1935 notes all sold for below estimate (if at all).

I was pretty surprised to see the $20 Weyburn get a solitary bid of 29000 + BP.  There must still be collectors looking for these notes.  I'm still a little puzzled as to why they are so popular.  A lot of unsold notes in the Charter section though.

I tried to bid on the $5 inverted error and wasn't even the underbidder.  I guess this is a tougher error note than I thought.  Action was pretty good on other error notes as well.

*MD sold pretty well despite the unattractive grade.  I couldn't bring myself to bid on it knowing that most other examples are in the Unc range.  The *DE sold for pretty cheap but it does seem that a lot of new examples have surfaced lately.

Did anyone on the forums get notes that you were looking for?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 11:20:22 pm by AL-Bob »
AL-Bob
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 11:18:47 pm »

My problem with higher denominations is that so many go straight to the SDB so too many are in high grade (or should be in high grade).  They're strictly a future investment.
[...] if you really want one now is the time to buy the top grade you can find (unless you want it just for amusement sake).

I highly doubt the high denoms will ever be a good investment present or future.  I'm not sure if that's what you meant.  You should buy them if you want them for your collection and they will bring you some kind of satisfaction but I think the value will always be closely pegged to the face value (or small ratio above).  Even that's in peril with the demonitization.  Clearly if they didn't have the $1000 face value they would sell for much, much less based on rarity alone.  This might not be the case for the really rare ones like Dominion $1000s, $1000 French and so on but most $1000s are wayyy over priced based on their rarity alone.  Like you said there are probably hoards of them in SDBs unknown to collectors at this time.

That being said I would be happy to buy any of the tougher signatures in Gem Unc even knowing that they will likely never go up in value.  Even buying the best grade you can find you're still pretty much buying them for amusement's sake although they probably won't lose as much value to inflation as a lower grade example would.
walktothewater
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 12:09:27 pm »

Quote
I tried to bid on the $5 inverted error and wasn't even the underbidder.  I guess this is a tougher error note than I thought.  Action was pretty good on other error notes as well.

I believe all errors that are as dramatic as that inverted $5 are tough.   Add the fact that it is either the same note (or the same type of note) featured in Charlton (last page 422 of 30th ed/ 424 of 29th ed), its UNC & the note holds a certain "star" power or "wow" factor.   American collectors are "all in" with errors these days & I believe the RCNA attracts a lot of deep pockets from south of the border (not to mention their US currency goes a long way here). 

Quote
I highly doubt the high denoms will ever be a good investment present or future.
 
I couldn't agree with you more (for all your observations on the $1000).  My comments were strictly a reflection of what I believed the consensus was at the RCNA morning workshop (for grading) & the fact that the market should be flooded at this time (so good time to buy).  Also, while it may be difficult, we must remember that there are many more American collectors of Canadian paper money than there are of CDN collectors.  American collector demand is a much higher factor on prices we see both in the book & at auctions.

BTW: thanks for the updates on the final auction prices!  :)   
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 12:13:02 pm by walktothewater »

alvin5454
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2018, 01:27:56 pm »

Hello Walk to the Water:

With due respect, please realize that the government has made no move to demonetize any notes.

Many people (especially non-collectors) have interpreted the announcement as demonetization. The proposed legislation was only to change the legal tender status of several note issues. That will force primarily retail merchants and most banks to no longer handle some notes in the course of doing business.

Demonitization occurs when a note has no value. All notes will continue to be redeemable from the Bank of Canada, and probably through designated banks (Bank of Montreal has historically been this choice of the government for this).
walktothewater
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2018, 10:59:46 pm »

Quote
With due respect, please realize that the government has made no move to demonetize any notes.

-yes, you're quite correct & I apologize for the mistake.

admin
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2018, 05:22:00 pm »

Further discussion moved to new topic: Bank of Montreal's association with government banking
 

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