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Topic: 1954 S/R Test Notes  (Read 16439 times)
eyevet
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« on: April 23, 2004, 09:10:46 pm »

According to Charlton there were 2,400,000 BC-38bT S/R Beattie Rasminsky Test Notes printed.  There were 340,000 BC-38cT S/R Bouey Rasminsky test notes printed and there were 240,000 BC-38dT S/R Lawson Bouey test notes issued.  Why then is the Beattie Rasminsky note considered more valuable than either of the other two notes when there were 7x more BC-38bT's printed than BC-38cT's, and 10x more BC-38bT's printed than BC-38dT's.


admin
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2004, 09:18:52 pm »

« Last Edit: April 23, 2004, 09:22:20 pm by admin »
eyevet
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2004, 12:27:25 am »

Wow, very interesting!!!!

The paper above refers to two batches of 95,000 notes (total 190,000) which were used for the test in the 1973 trial, one batch was coated and the other batch were controls.  (The 1975 and 1976 trials were done on the 1974 series of notes).  

Charlton estimates that 240,000 BC-38dT notes were printed so I wonder if these are the notes referred to in the 1973 trial.  The other possibility is that it is the G/R notes that were used for this trial although the number don't match up any better.  According to Charlton, there were three groups of G/R test notes:

G/R 0000001 - 0079999 = 80,000 notes
G/R 5280000 - 5367999 = 88,000 notes
and
G/R 5400001 - 5480000 = 80,000 notes.....

for a total of 248,000 notes.

If it was the S/R notes notes that were used, I wonder if there were serial number ranges which were coated and other ranges which were controls.  

Has anyone ever been able to tell which notes are coated by feeling them?

Thanks for any comments.


oldcollector
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2004, 02:35:12 am »

This one is for Eyevet and Paul, and anyone who is
confused about the 54 S/R issue as I am.

This throws a wrench into the works.

Can anyone offer an explination or has anyone
found a report that explains this note I have.

1954 S/R 2322690

It has a BC-38bT Serial number
but has a BC-38cT Signature.
It has been authenticated and is original.

Only thing I can think of is that Charltoin has the beginning and end of these runs mixed some how.
But you would think that the numbers they have listed are from reports from actual notes found. If these beginning and end numbers have realy been seen, how did this note come into existence?

Is this a test / test note?

{http://www.canadianbanknotes.com/images/54-002-SR2322690-s.jpg}

eyevet
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2004, 04:32:45 am »

I would think the most likely explanation is that the range in Charlton is incorrect.  In another thread I have reported on a couple of Gordon Towers $100 bills that have serial numbers above B/J 4160001 which according to Charlton is where the Coyne Towers run should start.

Quote
But you would think that the numbers they have listed are from reports from actual notes found.  


I beleive the numbers in Charlton come from numerous sources... collectors and sources at Bank of Canada.  People are fallable.  In the last CPMS newsletter (March 2004, Pg 18 ) there is a report of incorrect information that came from the Bank of Canada regarding the HNB $5 Bird note where two numbers were transposed.

By the way my Bouey Rasminsky test note is S/R 2347224 which I thought was very close to the changeover as reported in Charlton to be S/R 2340000. Based upon your note the changeover may have occurred at 2320000.

Let Bob Graham (rjgnotes@hotmail.com) know and this will be recorded in the CPMS newsletter and  in Charlton.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2004, 03:33:53 pm by eyevet »


eyevet
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2004, 07:34:18 pm »

The catalogue prices for the 1954 test notes have taken some unusual turns.  I don't have all the previous editions of the catalogue, so please help me complete the table.  Send me a private message and I will update the table.


spanking_the_money
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2004, 08:18:56 pm »

9th edition:
$1,900,  $875, and $675

11th edition:
$1,900,  $750, and $675

13th edition:
$1,600,  $750, and $725

15th edition:
$1,000, $850, and $800

I agree with your comments from the first posting.

Zatsta
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2004, 11:29:47 pm »

12th ed.     1,900     750      725
14th ed.     1,200     850      800
Gary_T
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2004, 04:03:43 am »

Here are the numbers from the first edition.
Beattie/Rasminsky - 0000001 - 2400000 = 2,400,000
Bouey/ Rasminsky - 2400001 - 2699999 = 299,999
Lawson/ Bouey - 2700000 - 2999999 = 300,000

The amount printed is listed in the summary of tecnical details but not as test notes and with regular catalogue numbers - BC-38b, BC-38c, BC-38d.
They are mentioned as being possible test notes in a paragraph called anomalies of the 1954 series.

Gary_T
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2004, 04:38:38 am »

This will complete the list
1st ed. = no listing for test note values
2nd. ed. = $100, $100, $100
3rd. ed. = $875, $650, $650
7th. ed. =$1,600, $800, $500
8th. ed. =$1,750, $800, $600

Gary_T
eyevet
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2004, 12:56:26 pm »

Thanks to Spanky, BWMJ, Zatsta, and GaryT  I've filled the gaps.   Thanks everyone.  A final table follows.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2004, 12:59:57 pm by eyevet »


eyevet
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2004, 12:57:36 pm »

and a graph.....


eyevet
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2004, 01:11:09 am »

I meant to append a couple of questions to my graph:  

Any ideas why the BC-38bT has experienced such a wild fluctuation in value over the years?

Another observation & question - the catalogue lists the serial number range for BC-38bT as S/R 0000001  to S/R 2339999 (but probably a bit less - perhaps to 2320000 based upon OldCollector's find as noted in this thread).
However, whenever I have seen a BC-38bT on auction or on e-bay or in dealer's stock, the serial number has been above 2000000.  Has anyone on this board seen lower numbered examples?


admin
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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2004, 02:01:04 pm »

The editor of the Charlton book knows about the $2 S/R 2322690 from when it was reported as having appeared on eBay, and he also knows of another with an even lower number. The 17th ed. Charlton has been updated to reflect these realities.

The numbers in the catalogue have generally come from documents, both from the Archives (NAC Record Group 19) and the Bank of Canada. None were guessed at, pulled out of the air or calculated on the basis of chicken entrails, no matter how many people want to believe that they were. In general there was no information forthcoming on the asterisk replacement notes (there are a very few exceptions); these are indicated in Charlton as the lowest and highest actually observed and verified, and are shown with asterisks; resulting quantities issued are shown with (est.) when they are in fact estimates based on the low/high observations. Now, as Michael Zigler correctly points out, the figures obtained from documents are not accurate 100% of the time. (In fact, they are sometimes contradictory and it can take years of data collecting to determine which document, if any, is right (I'm thinking of the Purple Seal $1's of the DoC 1923 issue). They are usually right, but enough errors have been exposed over the past twenty years that it should not be considered highly unusual if another contradiction shows up. Such is the case with these S/R test notes, and also the Gordon to Coyne signature changeover in the 1937 $100s. In these cases all we can do is revert to the lowest/highest actually seen and try to narrow it down from there, knowing that we will probably never find the
exact changeover number.

As for the relative scarcity of the three S/R signatures, it comes down once again to the fact that the number printed isn't very important, it is the number which have been saved. Once it was discovered that there was something funny going on with that prefix coming out with different signatures, I suspect, more attention was paid to keeping them. Prices are determined for each edition from the data coming in from the dealers and collectors on the pricing panel. If there get to be too many of an item on the market, prices come down.
eyevet
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2004, 02:34:57 am »

Quote
However, whenever I have seen a BC-38bT on auction or on e-bay or in dealer's stock, the serial number has been above 2000000.  Has anyone on this board seen lower numbered examples?


I'll answer my own question here.  I was at the show in Hamilton today and I saw the following two Beattie Rasminsky Test Notes BC-38bT in dealer's stock:

S/R 0762106
S/R 1168668


 

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