CPM Forum
General => Banknote Grading Standards and TPG => Topic started by: eyevet on June 02, 2008, 11:00:59 pm
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We are collecting opinions from CPMF members on Professional Graders and the service they provide.
Please complete the following survey (should take no more than 5 minutes).
Take the survey! (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=FFcnB1GuuVgvhOqhjEMqAg_3d_3d)
Those who complete the survey will be entered in a random draw for one luncheon ticket to the CPMS luncheon in Ottawa on July 18th (conditions apply).
All responses are completely confidential. The results are being collected by a private polling service, and the raw data will not be provided to me.
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We are collecting opinions from CPMF members on Professional Graders and the service they provide.
Excellent idea. I just filled out the survey, but would like to make a suggestion.
I think that there should be a comment section where we could actually specify and describe our good/bad experiences with a particular TPG. I have dealt with 3 of the graders mentioned and have done so numerous times. I think these personal (not second hand or hearsay) comments would be a benefit to your survey.
FRIEDSQUID
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There is a comments section on page 4 of the survey where you can add anything you want to add regarding TPGs.
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There is a comments section on page 4 of the survey where you can add anything you want to add regarding TPGs.
I took this section as more of a a comment on how third party graders affect the hobby, not as a place to voice an opinion of a specific TPG....guess its to late now.
:'(
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My biggest problem with third-party graded notes is that, unlike with coins, once they've been encapsulated you can't really grade them for yourself. It's customary to grade high-grade notes by holding them up obliquely towards a light source in order to find those little counting creases and other handling marks that aren't always evident when looking in the perpendicular direction. Once a note has been encapsulated you can grade the plastic holder but not the note itself ;D Also, once it's been encapsulated it's very difficult to tell if it's been pressed (the TPG companies will never tell you this explicitly) and you can't smell the note for chemicals. I don't think it matters too much on a note costing, perhaps, $100 but I would be very very uncomfortable spending $20,000 on a note that I couldn't inspect in the flesh.
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Ottawa
I find if you place the TPG note flat on a table and take an LED flashlight, hold it horizontaly to the holder and you can see a lot of the imperfections.
You should not even have to angle your view, simpy look at the note on a birds eye view and move the flashlight side to side.
Jason
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.... I find if you place the TPG note flat on a table and take an LED flashlight, hold it horizontally to the holder and you can see a lot of the imperfections.
Many thanks, Jason. That sounds like a great idea. I guess we should all start carrying a LED flashlight when we attend coin shows and auctions!
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I guess we should all start carrying a LED flashlight when we attend coin shows and auctions!
I already do - they're great as long as one remembers to keep them stocked with well-charged batteries. ;D
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I already do
i'm sooooo upset >:(..... Brent's flashlight has more LED's than my flashlight!!! :'(
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Rumour is he is including them with this years new charlton order. thanks Brent
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Rumour is he is including them with this years new charlton order. thanks Brent
What's that? You're volunteering to pay for them all? How wonderful!
(Speaking of which, I suppose I should get on that whole Charlton order thing sometime soon... Hmm... after I finish the CPMS newsletter perhaps.)
Erm... Maybe we can stay on-topic, yes?
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Thanks to everyone who has submitted their opinions! Already it is looking like eyevet will have a lot to mull over when this thing is wrapped up.
If you haven't completed the survey yet, please do! You could win a free CPMS luncheon ticket!
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Thanks to all who answered the survey. There is some interesting material especially in the comments section which has raised some additional questions which I will post in the next message.
The big winner of the draw for a luncheon ticket at the CPMS luncheon in Ottawa is:
Mike Zarytshansky
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OK... based upon the comments received... I would like to ask three more questions.
1. Why would you want to have your banknotes graded by a professional grading service.
2. What are your expectations from a professional grading service
3. What factors would you consider in choosing a professional grading service.
You can post your responses here, or e-mail them to michael@zigler.ca
Thanks
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Thanks
I just sent you an email
FRIEDSQUID
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A couple of reasons why I don't like graded notes:
1. They are harder to store in albums.
2. It is harder to arrange them in exhibits.
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Add to that list:
What factor gives someone the authority to grade a note, and proclaim that grade to the world?
Secondly, how does the community know if there are conflicts of interest? The only way TPG could ever be reliable is if there were not an allegiance to business in note trading. There is conflict of interest, because from what I understand, all TPG companies, have a vested interest in the performance of certain notes (their own stock I would imagine).
One cannot serve two masters (That's in the book of Matthew I think) -- although I am merely using it as a parallel to compare being a dealer and being a TPGrader.
Related question, and it is a parallell as well....
Name the one country in the world that is not part of the UN (that has the choice to be, and is not choosing respresentation by another country)? PM me if you think you know the answer... think-- conflict of interest... (besides Kosovo)
Basically, it boils down to this:
If A thinks he's right,
B thinks he's right, and C thinks he's right, and they are all different, how on earth could there be validation (unless two of the three determined their own system)?
Logically, it does not make sense.
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A couple of reasons why I don't like graded notes:
1. They are harder to store in albums.
2. It is harder to arrange them in exhibits.
There currently are binders and sleeves that hold TPG notes which I have seen some dealers use at shows. They are made to fit these slabbed notes.
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There currently are binders and sleeves that hold TPG notes which I have seen some dealers use at shows. They are made to fit these slabbed notes.
Yes, I realize there are. However, I have invested 20+ years in my albums that cost hundreds of dollars. Do I now have 2 separate collections, one with slabs and the other without. Or should I spend thousands of dollars getting all my notes slabbed and buying these new albums?
With respect to exhibiting, I am thinking of removing several notes from their plastic enclosures just because they are hard to arrange for my particular exhibit. I also think that slabs are distractive in an exhibit. People will spend time reading the grading information instead of looking at the notes and the exhibit information.
The bottom line is that "Third Party Grading" was introduced so that speculators can invest in currency without knowing anything about the hobby. This ultimately raises prices which, of course, is why most dealers love slabbing. TPG also gives dealers an "automatic guaranty" that allows them to refuse returns for improper grading.
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Yes, I realize there are. However, I have invested 20+ years in my albums that cost hundreds of dollars. Do I now have 2 separate collections, one with slabs and the other without. Or should I spend thousands of dollars getting all my notes slabbed and buying these new albums?
Only my opinion, but either sell your used binders and sleeves to another collector, possibly one who is just beginning to collect and could save a few dollars by buying them from you, or as you suggest have two separate collections.
Personally, I have both raw and TPG notes and I do agree in one way if you have some of the series graded and others not, they don't seem to present in the same way and I guess if they are being put in a display of some type the slabs do distract from a raw note. On the other hand, I personally still look at any note in a TPG slab regardless of the grade assigned since I don't always trust the TPG's opinion 100 % of the time. I guess that depends on the individual.
Another item you brought up about cutting notes out of the slabs. Personally one reason I do like the slabs is that I don't have issues letting my 14 yr old daughter examining the notes since I don't worry about her accidentally damaging them. And if all else fails, slabbed notes make great conversation pieces when used as drink coasters at your next party ;D