Canadian Bank of Commerce $100

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

Hey

I recently acquired a Canadian Bank of Commerce $100 signed Aird Logan. Beautiful note, this is the first time I had seen one at a local show so I made an instant deal.  I heard that there are very few of these left (about 30) but I was wondering if someone knew an exact number?

Thank you all for your time.

Congratulations on scooping up a great note, KKC! Why not post an image for us?

Twenty-nine (29) are known according to my correspondence with Forum Moderator (and Rare Note Register Editor) Bob last year. Here's the original undoctored VF example that I picked up about 10 years ago from a local coin shop in Ottawa (I paid $200, which was the going rate at the time). The dealer had a second one in lower grade (VG) at $150 but I made a serious error of judgment and passed! However, at that time they were not so highly regarded and the catalogue price was low compared with today.

By the way, I also remember when Bank of Canada $25 1935 notes in EF/AU were in the $300 range (mid-1970's) ......... 

{http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3433819/2007/5/3/1.jpg}

Thank you soo much Ottawa

I just picked up the note yesterday so I will get it scanned and posted very soon. Mine is not nearly as nice as yours, I would say it falls in the VG-Fine range. there is a damaged right side margin but none the less I am very pleased to call one my own. If a better one comes along I will most likely trade up.

Here is my note

{http://jasonkc.idweb.ca/1917%20Commerce%20$100%20F.JPG}

{http://jasonkc.idweb.ca/1917%20Commerce%20$100%20B.JPG}

I just picked up the note yesterday so I will get it scanned and posted very soon. Mine is not nearly as nice as yours, I would say it falls in the VG-Fine range. There is a damaged right side margin but none the less I am very pleased to call one my own.

I'm very impressed by the apparent quality of the repair/restoration/conservation work that you had performed on your note. When I look at the repaired note that is now in your eBay Store it's very difficult to detect exactly where the repair work is although on the note itself it's probably more evident. I recall that there were some small missing pieces prior to the repair work. There are some instances when repairs/restoration/conservation are warranted and this is one of them! It would be fascinating to see "before" and "after" scans of your note! 

Dear Ottawa

It is not only a pleasure but a privilege to know someone that performs such fenominal work. It took of patience and perfectionist work but the detail has truly been captured. The repairs are not more apparent on the note when viewing it first hand as the scanners light usualy tends to highlight these.

Here are the before an after for observation. Sorry as both images are note exactly the same resolution

{http://jasonkc.idweb.ca/1917%20Commerce%20$100%20F2.jpg}
{http://jasonkc.idweb.ca/1917%20Comm%20$100%20F.JPG}

It is not only a pleasure but a privilege to know someone that performs such phenomenal work. It took patience and perfectionist work but the detail has truly been captured. Here are the before an after for observation.

Many thanks for posting the before and after images, KC. This is certainly one of the very best repair jobs that I've seen on a well-circulated note that had a piece missing. The only "tell-tale" sign that I could see on the repaired note is a certain fuzziness in the upper half of the decorative vertical panel at the right-hand side, in particular a slight loss of overall superficial detail. This was probably due to chemicals used during the repair process which evidently involved the bonding of some matching paper taken from a similar note.

I'm sure the repair work was quite expensive but it was money well spent. Congratulations!

Thank you very much Ottawa for the feedback and may I say good eye.

Unfortunately, that deep-sixes my interest in ever wanting to acquire this note as I would consider it now just a piece of numismatic "art".  Best to stick it in a frame under glass as no real collector of original unmolestered notes will want it.

I am in no rush to sell it but I know it has limited the potential buyers. But I do not see it in any worse condition than when it was aquired.

But I do not see it in any worse condition than when it was acquired.

I would agree with that statement. In my opinion, a large missing piece is the worst form of damage (aesthetically speaking) so it's a good idea to hide it if at all possible. A missing piece is analogous to a hole or a severe edge knock on a coin. These are real eyesores that just won't go away. Unfortunately, a large missing piece is one of the most difficult types of damage to repair. It usually requires obtaining another note printed on the same type of paper (typically a common foreign note), removing an appropriate piece, and then bonding the piece carefully to the damaged note under a microscope. I've tried it myself in the past and have never had any real success. A tear is relatively easy to seal but a missing piece is another matter entirely. Also, it's easy to cause further damage to a note during a major repair by the use of organic solvents that can cause the ink to run and/or to lose its intensity, and by the use of glues that can change the texture and translucency of the paper.

Anyway, I've seen some atrocious repairs in the past (a Royal Bank of Canada $100 1913 note that did the rounds on eBay and at several public auctions in the last year comes to mind) but this $100 Commerce note is not one of them! In the present case, I would suggest that about 75% of collectors would prefer the repaired note while 25% would prefer the original damaged note ... but who knows for sure? The best way to find out what the note may be worth is to put it up on eBay in an unrestricted auction with a low starting price (with a reserve) and see what happens. The catalogue value is $600 in Fine and $950 in VF.

In Heritage's upcoming 2007 September Long Beach, CA Signature Currency Auction #448

Toronto, ONT- The Canadian Bank of Commerce $100 Jan. 2, 1917 Ch. 75-16-02-12
Like many of the Canadian notes from the Ameen collection, this piece can trace its pedigree back to the William P. Donlon sale of the Thomas F. Morris II Estate. Thomas F. Morris II was the son of Thomas F. Morris, Sr., the Chief of the Engraving Division of the U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing from 1893 until his death in 1898. In that capacity Morris Sr. supervised the preparation and production of the Educational Series notes. His son was a well known collector who became a Charter Member of the Society of Paper Money Collectors and served as President of the New York Numismatic Club. The younger Morris was one of the first Americans to seriously collect Canadian paper money, and a fair number of his notes grace this catalogue. This example was lot 674 in his November, 1974 sale. Fine-Very Fine.
From The John Ameen Collection
Estimate: $700 - $900.

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=448&Lot_No=12367

Doing so would defeat the purpose of finding a sucker to pay 4x the catalogue value.

I usualy look forward to reading your comments in this forum. You have quite a bit of wisdom in this field and I could have lots to learn from you but disagree that the buyer will be a sucker.

In Heritage's upcoming 2007 September Long Beach, CA Signature Currency Auction #448:
Toronto, ONT- The Canadian Bank of Commerce $100 Jan. 2, 1917 Ch. 75-16-02-12. Fine-Very Fine.
From The John Ameen Collection Estimate: $700 - $900.

http://currency.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=448&Lot_No=12367

It will be very interesting to see if the catalogue value prevails in this auction or whether the catalogue price will have to be revised!

It will be very interesting to see if the catalogue value prevails in this auction or whether the catalogue price will have to be revised!

The $100 Commerce 1917 F-VF note in Heritage's auction last night sold for US$2300 including the buyer's commission. This is well over the current Charlton catalogue value of CDN$600 in Fine and CDN$900 in VF. I recall that kid_kc79 had mentioned that he would be happy to pay double catalogue for that note although I notice that his original post has now been deleted(?). Anyway, I must tip my hat to The Kid for his foresight and confidence in the Canadian chartered market! I was personally expecting a much lower realization.

Thanks Ottawa

I previously deleted the last post NOT because I changed my beleifs but some people decided to use this information on their site to mock me. My offer still stands for anyone wanting to sell the $100 Commerce I will go multiples of book 

I Had a bid of 1900 on this note without the fees. I was not suprised my bid did not stand but am pleased to see the priced realized.

I was also very impressed by most of the chartered material in the John Amen collection which topped the book values by double to tripple digit gains. One note in perticular was the 1913 Royal $10 in EF45 which fetched $3200. Even as the note is considered common the demand for it in VF+ and up is astonishing.

Jason

One note in particular was the 1913 Royal $10 in EF45 which fetched $3200. Even as the note is considered common the demand for it in VF+ and up is astonishing.

Yes, the $10 1913 Battleship note is quite common in Fine and below, scarce in original VF and very rare in higher grades. It's evident that there are many people out there who are willing to pay big money when rarity, condition and aesthetic appeal are combined in one note!

Another note that never does well in Fine and below but always does well in original VF and higher grades is the Dominion of Canada $1 1898 note.

I was also very impressed by most of the chartered material in the John Amen collection which topped the book values by double to tripple digit gains. One note in perticular was the 1913 Royal $10 in EF45 which fetched $3200. Even as the note is considered common the demand for it in VF+ and up is astonishing.

The unfortunate thing though is that there's virtually no hope in hell of getting "Heritage" prices when selling similar items on eBay! The major international auction houses like Heritage, Stacks and Smythe in the US, and Spink, Baldwin and others in Britain, have access to the richest collectors and investors in the world, most of whom probably don't have the time, inclination or even ability to monitor eBay.

eBay seems to be much more of a wholesale market where you can usually get 70%-80% of book but not much more, at least in my experience. Many of the better notes on eBay are purchased by other eBay sellers who then turn round and deposit their purchases in their eBay Stores at higher prices (and often at higher advertised grades!) and those notes generally tend to languish there for a long time.

The eBay auction format is an excellent medium if you want to actually SELL your material and aren't overly worried about the final price. eBay is best for lower and medium priced items (less than $500). It's certainly not the best medium for unloading rare chartered notes in the $2,500+ range.

I think your both right in the sence that it is very dificult to sell high end notes on ebay. It is an uphill battle but I will continue trying. Some sellers have proven that there is a market for these notes on ebay.
 

In theory added compitition should result in lower prices!

Two more Bank of Commerce $100 1917 notes have come out of the woodwork and will be offered at the Charles Moore Torex auction in Toronto on October 25-27, 2007. One is described as being Crisp Unc (Serial # 13857, Plate B), the other VG with several tape repaired tears (Serial # 10717, Plate B). Wow!

I have yet to see the auction catalog for Torex yet! Is a PDF version of it posted anywere?

An UNC 1917 Commerce $100 that is amazing. I would sure love to be called the owner of that one but judging by the Heritage prices I think my pockets won't be deep enaugh.

I also find it kind of strange that when a certain scarce note appears on market, usualy a few more will shortly follow. For example, in 2005 I purchased one of the 8 remaining 1919 Banque Provincial $10. At that time there were 3 or 4 to come to market. I was able to get mine reasonably cheap because of this. Same goes for the Royal Bank 1909 notes and many others.

Jason

I have yet to see the auction catalog for Torex yet! Is a PDF version of it posted anywere

The October catalogue is not yet available in PDF on the website but should be shortly I was told. Guess we will just have to keep checking
FRIEDSQUID

I have yet to see the auction catalog for Torex yet! Is a PDF version of it posted anywere?

I don't think Charles Moore posts any of his catalogues on line. You have to buy the hard-copy catalogue.

I don't think he has a web site but his email address is: moorecoins@astound.net.

http://www.torex.net/torex_coin_show/auctions.htm

This is the link to the Torex website and on the site there is a download for the Oct Auction cat.  But like I said, it will be a few days I was told that it would be available.
FRIEDSQUID

Here are some of the other better chartered notes in the Moore sale: Bank of BNA $10 1911 (VG+), Eastern Townships Bank $1 1859 (VG), Bank of Hamilton $4 1872 (VG), Imperial Bank $5 1896 (VG), Bank of London $5 1883 (VG), Merchants Bank $1 1864 (VG+). Merchants Bank $10 1917 (VF), Metropolitan Bank $10 1909 (aF), Bank of Montreal $4 1871 (aVG), Bank of Ottawa $5 1900 (Fine), Royal Bank of Canada $20 1909 (AU, yes AU!), Bank of Toronto $1 1859 (Fine), Union Bank of Newfoundland $5 1889 (VG) ... and lots more including rare Specimen and Proof notes.

Thanks Ottawa for a sneak peek into the upcoming Torex auction. This is a list of amazing material, many of which could be considered “trophy” notes.

1909 RBC $20 AU 

I will also look into procuring an auction catalog to see these notes 

Jason