CPM Forum
Canadian Notes => Polymer Series => Topic started by: AZ on November 03, 2013, 08:00:59 pm
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Check out this video from the BOC on polymer handling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X14nXc6-u7M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X14nXc6-u7M). At the 0:46 mark, the notes being shown appear to have Stephen Poloz's signature. Here is a snaphot where I added Poloz's signature from coinsplus for comparison:
{http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1920/n9n7.jpg}
Unless I am mistaken, the prefix on these fives is HBH. This puts the changeover either in HBG or HBH.
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That looks like his signature to me. If anything this may spark more interest in the new polymer 5$ notes (for us collectors that is ;)).
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Yes, I agree that this is his signature.
Anxious to get my hands on some new bills this week.
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At the unveiling in April, a close-up picture I have has notes HBG1330405 and FTH7810523 signed M/C.
So I suspect the changeover will be later on.
But yeah, that is Poloz's signature in the video.
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All I ask is that everyone please add their notes to the SNDB when you get them.
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"Poloz unveils the last of the series — the $5 and $10 notes — on Thursday, with the lower denomination note bearing his signature."
From Financial Post Article on Page FP2 "Women possible on new bills, bank says - Absolutely open to the idea: Poloz", National Post, November 4, 2013.
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From Financial Post Article on Page FP2 "Women possible on new bills, bank says - Absolutely open to the idea: Poloz", National Post, November 4, 2013.
Gee, how 20th century of him! But there already are women on the new polymer notes: one of the back of the $100 and one on the front of the $20... :P
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Since the notes are fully recyclable, I wonder if HBA-HBG signed M/C were issued for testing and then destroyed and recycled?
Perhaps HBH is the changeover? M/C polymer $5, if issued, could be collectable.
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Since the notes are fully recyclable, I wonder if HBA-HBG signed M/C were issued for testing and then destroyed and recycled?
Perhaps HBH is the changeover? M/C polymer $5, if issued, could be collectable.
Hmm...that would be quite interesting if they did that. It wouldn't be like them though to simply destroy that many brand new notes. That's 7 prefixes which at about 10 million each would be 70 million notes destroyed which wouldn't make sense from an economic point of view.
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Hmm...that would be quite interesting if they did that. It wouldn't be like them though to simply destroy that many brand new notes. That's 7 prefixes which at about 10 million each would be 70 million notes destroyed which wouldn't make sense from an economic point of view.
Well, with HBH and HBK finds recently been posted, there may be a likelihood that there won't be any HAM to HBG notes appearing in Canada whatsoever (so much for someone's HAM and EGG combo). There may likely be some HBG's with the new signature combo, but that will remain to be seen. But depending on how many of the HB* notes with the new signatures are issued, we may likely get to denominational letter C much quicker now (there may even be HC* prefixes towards the end of the latest printing session for all we know).
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(so much for someone's HAM and EGG combo). [...] we may likely get to denominational letter C much quicker now (there may even be HC* prefixes towards the end of the latest printing session for all we know).
No HAM and EGG? :'(
But seriously, I'd love to see denom. letter C revived on the $5 note.
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There may likely be some HBG's with the new signature combo,
Have seen HBG with Poloz signature. Will post shortly once I get my hands on it if no one else has found it.
So far have seen
5- HBG, HBH, HBK, HBL
10- FEW, FEY, FTC
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FTC 4597028 is M/C
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This auction on ebay has a picture of the new $5 bill with the M/C signatures. Unlike most of the auctions featuring the new $5 and $10 bills, the picture doesn't look like it was taken from a news story or the Bank of Canada website. I sent a message to the seller asking what the serial number of the note is. He hasn't reply yet.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161150891737&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:CA:1123
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This auction on ebay has a picture of the new $5 bill with the M/C signatures. Unlike most of the auctions featuring the new $5 and $10 bills, the picture doesn't look like it was taken from a news story or the Bank of Canada website. I sent a message to the seller asking what the serial number of the note is. He hasn't reply yet.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161150891737&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:CA:1123
Your right it is indeed a Macklem-Carney $5. Will be interesting to know the serial number,
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I just received a reply, the serial number is HBH0726540. I believe the seller took a random picture and used it for his auction since this serial number should have the newest signatures. I just saw another auction by a different seller using the same picture. I'll keep looking for the Macklen-Carney notes.
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Still no Carney $5s reported in actual circulation. I wonder if they were destroyed, and if so, if any managed to escape.
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I wonder if they were destroyed
That's what I'm beginning to think. I wouldn't be surprised one bit.
That being said, while I have a consec. pair of each, I've yet to see a single poly $5 or $10 in a cash drawer or in anyone's hands at a store.
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I've yet to see a single poly $5 or $10 in a cash drawer or in anyone's hands at a store.
Already out there. Got several with folds in them. Also getting mixed notes some old some new.
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I got my first poly $5 in change yesterday at the LCBO. It was already a well-circulated note. I haven't seen a poly $10 yet.
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I've seen a few stores with some in their register. Its funny because a cashier was starting her shift and when she opened the register was surprised to see them and took a minute to look at them all fascinated. But all the ones I have received in change already have a fold or two in them, the only ones that I get uncirculated are from the bank so far.
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I too am inclined to believe all of the missing M-C Frontier $5s were destroyed, but if that is the case, we are talking about a lot of notes.
220 million notes per prefix; with HBA-HBF and about half of HBG, that's about 1.65 billion notes, or 16.5 million bundles. Considering each bundle takes up 85 cubic cm of space, that's 1.4 billion cubic cm, or 1,400 cubic metres.
1,400 cubic metres would fill more than eight rail boxcars. That is one heck of a lot of notes to destroy.
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Another hypothesis: Although it's a very odd point to begin, maybe they started at HBG?
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220 million notes per prefix;
???
More like 220 million notes per denomination letter, not per prefix. So HBA-HBZ would have 220 million notes in total.
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Still no Carney $5s reported in actual circulation. I wonder if they were destroyed, and if so, if any managed to escape.
I too am inclined to believe all of the missing M-C Frontier $5s were destroyed, but if that is the case, we are talking about a lot of notes.
I would not jump to conclusions about the M/C Frontier $5 as its only been released a couple weeks ago and there's still plenty of time for the signature change-over to surface. There have been more $10 prefixes released than the $5 even though the $10 is probably less used & in less demand. They have a lot of $5 prefixes yet to be released & keep in mind we've experienced buried prefixes before (-in fact it almost seems to be the norm these days).
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I would not jump to conclusions about the M/C Frontier $5 as its only been released a couple weeks ago and there's still plenty of time for the signature change-over to surface.
I agree with you and I hope it's true. Maybe they wanted to release the Poloz signatures first when everyone is looking at the notes for the first time. I'm sure the M/C ones will be released very soon now that the hype is starting to die down and people are getting used to seeing them more often.
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My take on this, there are Mark Carney $5 polymer notes.
When these notes were released, Stephen Poloz launched both notes earlier this November. To give him some credit for the launch, the Bank of Canada decided to issue $5 notes bearing his signature. Considering Poloz is the head of the BoC, it would have been awkward to have Carney's name on everything, including the big blow-up cardboard scans of the polymer notes, and on the physical notes at the official launch date.
It will just be a matter of time for the Carney/Macklem $5 notes to appear. The possibility for the Bank of Canada to have destroyed the new $5 polymer notes for just having Carney's signature would be a publicity nightmare for the government, for wasting taxpayer's money. If Carney's signature was that offensive on the new notes, then the Bank of Canada would have not distributed Carney's $10 polymer notes.
I think, and it's my opinion....when Carney unexpectingly announced his resignation, and after some time to find his replacement, Poloz eventually got the top job. I believe the Bank of Canada decided to change course with production and focused on getting $5 notes bearing his signature, instead of the $10 notes for the inaugural launch by Poloz himself.
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There have been more $10 prefixes released than the $5 even though the $10 is probably less used & in less demand.
Do keep in mind that even though there have been more $10 prefixes than $5 prefixes reported to the SNDB doesn't mean there are more $10 bills than $5 bills distributed at this point. There may be millions of the existing reported prefixes yet to appear in banks anywhere in Canada, whereas there may be a larger quantity of new $5 bills in circulation despite the smaller number of prefixes.
It's been nearly 3 weeks since I got my hands on one Polymer $10 bill, and sadly I haven't seen one since.
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Got my first poly $10 yesterday at the cafeteria of the Royal Vic hospital. The guy's cash had a bunch of new $10s. A couple doctors in front of me also got one and were ooh-ing and ahh-ing over them.
Still no poly $5 yet.
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I spoke with a cashier at a financial institution a short time ago, and she was made aware of a letter her institution received from the Bank of Canada regarding the new polymer $5 and $10 notes. She told me that the new $5 notes were not originally scheduled for release until some time in 2014, but that the release date had been moved up to coincide with the release of the $10 notes. If this is true, it could be indicative that there are still plenty of new Journey $5 notes that could be released. She said the communication from the Bank indicated that there is no withdrawal of either denomination of Journey notes taking place, so the introduction of the polymer notes is likely to be slow.
We must keep in mind that polymer notes are not just being dropped onto the public, adding to the glut of notes already in circulation. For every new note released, an old note should be withdrawn (roughly). The Macklem-Carney polymer $5 notes could have been put aside and the newest Macklem-Poloz notes released first to fill a small demand. There are still plenty of Journey $5 notes not accounted for, and it is unclear how many will reach circulation. It's still very much a guessing game what will happen to those older series of notes. I am doubtful that the Bank will be sending those out at the same time they are issuing polymer notes, but there could be large inventories of older notes already in the distribution system sitting around waiting to be opened and circulated, meaning that unless the Bank changes direction and creates a recall of older notes, those notes in the private distribution system will get out eventually.
Ironically, I've had no trouble getting polymer $5 notes. They are plentiful here.
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I don't think there will be any recall of the old $5 or $10s just quite yet, especially during the holiday season when cash flows are high and banks can't ship out everything old. The $20s still haven't been withdrawn after a year, and a lot of paper $20s I'm seeing are pretty tattered. Since the $5s and $10s don't last that long in circulation, it only makes sense they're going to still circulate them.
Heck, today in a cash withdrawal the teller gave me all Journey $100s even though they are supposed to ship those back. Some banks are still giving out crisp Journey 5s, but still no M/C. :(
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Some banks are still giving out crisp Journey 5s, but still no M/C. :(
It's been quite the opposite for me. I've found about 10 in the last month (before that I hadn't found one in at least several months). Most are in alright shape with a fold or two in them but 3 of them that I got were crisp which was a nice surprise. Those crisp ones that I got tell me there must still be some that haven't been shipped out to banks yet.
Back to the signature changeover it's only a matter of time. They're probably trying to finish up releasing the remaining Journey notes while at the same time releasing the Poloz notes (since he is the current governor). Then the M/C polymers should start appearing later on when new notes are needed to replace older notes.
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The $20s still haven't been withdrawn after a year
If I am not mistaken it will be much easier to replace the $5 and $10 journey compared to the 20.
The approximate ratio of total $10:$5$20 in circulation is as follows:
1:1.8:7.1
So there are approximately 3 times more $20 than $5 and 7 times more $20 than $10 in circulation at any given point in time.
I wonder if that makes any difference
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My optimistic opinion.......
As the Mackem Carney $5 notes were printed they were put into the big vault from back to front, with the front of the vault containing exclusively Mackem Poloz notes. Now that the notes are being released the notes are being taken from the vault from front to back.
Sort of like baggage on the airplane ... first in, last out.
8) MZ 8)
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My optimistic opinion.......
As the Mackem Carney $5 notes were printed they were put into the big vault from back to front, with the front of the vault containing exclusively Mackem Poloz notes. Now that the notes are being released the notes are being taken from the vault from front to back.
Sort of like baggage on the airplane ... first in, last out.
8) MZ 8)
Yes, that is a theory that has been applied to other series. However, wouldn't we expect to see the Macklem-Poloz $5 notes released in reverse order? The notes just after the HBG changeover should be at the back of the vault, too. Alternately, is this a sign that very few polymer $5 notes have been printed, and they will make more as the Journey series is gradually withdrawn over time?
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:)
The first Carney $5 has been reported now in Edmonton, keep a watchful eye on the signatures...
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The first Carney $5 has been reported now in Edmonton, keep a watchful eye on the signatures...
It may still be an M/P note as the changeover has not been confirmed.
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It's an M/C note - a scan was sent in.
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If you can read french, this article say that the BoC did release 2 $5 last year, but only the M/P signature one made it into circulation.
http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/canada/201402/10/01-4737250-deux-nouveaux-billets-de-5.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=lapresseaffaires_LA5_nouvelles_98718_accueil_POS22
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If you can read french, this article say that the BoC did release 2 $5 last year, but only the M/P signature one made it into circulation.
http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/canada/201402/10/01-4737250-deux-nouveaux-billets-de-5.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=lapresseaffaires_LA5_nouvelles_98718_accueil_POS22
Good find on that article. I find it interesting how they also mention that there are plans to print more 100$, 50$, 20$ and 10$ banknotes but no mention of 5$ notes.
Though according to the SNDB there appears to be 2 reported M/C polymer 5$ notes (excluding the one BWJM was able to see before the release). It looks as if maybe the M/C notes got pushed to the back by the M/P notes or the BOC recalled the M/C ones and a few bricks slipped by and got delivered to banks. We will have to wait and see... >:(
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If you can read french, this article say that the BoC did release 2 $5 last year, but only the M/P signature one made it into circulation.
http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/canada/201402/10/01-4737250-deux-nouveaux-billets-de-5.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=lapresseaffaires_LA5_nouvelles_98718_accueil_POS22
This is not one, but two new $ 5 bills that were launched last year, although only cut signed by the governor Stephan Poloz was put into circulation on November 7. The same day, the Bank of Canada has also launched a new $ 10 bill, which covers the former signing Mark Carney.
The banknote bearing the image of Wilfrid Laurier was unveiled on April 30, simultaneously in Ottawa by then Governor Mark Carney and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and the International Space Station (ISS) by Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield, ticket in hand, in describing the main features.
Mr. Hadfield was aboard the ISS since December 21. Or he took off with the note in his luggage, or it has been supplied by American astronaut Chris Cassidy, who joined the ISS on March 29, one month before the launch of the new cut.
New governor
Mr. Poloz was appointed Governor on May 2, two days after the launch of the $ 5 bill, and took office on June 3
On the site of the Bank of Canada, specimens of new $ 5 bills also bear the signature of Mark Carney.
Under the Law on Access to Information, La Presse has tried to find the additional costs for making new plates signed by Mr. Poloz printer Company Canadian Bank Note (CBN) and storage costs already stored tickets ornate calligraphy Carney.
Information provided will make no mention. Complaints were brought to the Office of the Information Commissioner.
In the documentation provided by the Bank, we learn that even when, on 30 May, four days before the inauguration of Mr. Poloz, the Bank entered into communication with the printer to coordinate CBN etching the signature of Mr. Poloz.
Changing signature required
In another email, it says that the change of signature is required to comply with the law.
There is also a question of ensuring that the new signature has the same line as the template and Senior Deputy Governor Tiff Macklem.
It highlights as Mr. Carney had been correct when plates signed by Mr. Macklem had to replace that of Paul Jenkins, who had left the Bank in July 2010.
The signature of Mr. Jenkins remains however on the $5 and $10 in the Canadian Journey series, still widely in circulation today, that Mr. Macklem replacing on the latest $20 bills this last issue cotton paper. The greenback polymer was launched in February 2012.
The launch of the polymer series was originally intended to fight against counterfeiters, reached easily counterfeit notes $50 and $100, to the point where many merchants refused to.
In addition to the issue of the Bank of Canada from June 20, 2011, Charles Spencer explains that "the initial cost of polymer notes is almost double that paper banknotes [...]. However, the expected long-term reduce the need for reprinting and replacing worn "banknotes.
This means that the cuts signed by Mark Carney are promised a good life, unless they are removed from the circulation by the end of their useful life. However, this would reduce the seigniorage income of the Bank.
However, the correspondence between the Bank and its printer also reveals that new notes $10, $20, $50 and $100 must be printed this year, although launch dates have been redacted.
Presumably, the schedule will be delayed. The other signatory tickets, Tiff Macklem, resigned on December 5 and his successor has not yet been named.
His signature on banknotes last she as long as Mr. Jenkins?
Otherwise, how the Bank should she spend to replace it?
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Google translate, huh? ;)
Otherwise, how the Bank should she spend to replace it?
Ouch...
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Good find on that article. I find it interesting how they also mention that there are plans to print more 100$, 50$, 20$ and 10$ banknotes.
The President's message in the last CPMS Journal and the analysis by researchers indicated that they had information from the Bank that all the $50 Polymers that are needed have been printed.
I wonder who is correct?
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Still only two Carney polymer $5s reported in the SNDB after four months of circulation - does anyone have any more info about the missing notes?
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I have looked at the polymer series prefixes and compared the number of notes issued until now with the BOC banknote liabilities for 2012. The expectation is that these numbers are close.
$100: The number of circulating prefixes (33) matches the BOC liabilities (330 mln notes).
$50: Out of 28 prefixes printed, we have not seen two (AMH and AMJ), and AMG, AMK and AML have been issued only partially. Again, the numbers are close.
$20: The paper twenties are still being replaced. 74 of possible 86 prefixes have been printed and 72 issued.
$10: The number of printed prefixes (11) is close to the liabilities (120 mln notes). 10 of these prefixes are already circulating.
$5: This is where it gets interesting. At least 18 prefixes of M/P notes have been printed, and 14 issued. If M/C HAL-HAZ and HBA-HBH were printed too, we have 36 prefixes printed, way more than 23 prefixes required to replace the paper notes. I still think that we will see all of the 18.5 M/C prefixes in circulation, but it will not be soon, perhaps in a year or two.
{attach:5061}
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found in a brick today ??? :-D
Nice find! I have yet to find my first one! :(
It seems to me that it doesn't matter if a 5$ note is paper or plastic, as long as it has the M/C signatures, it's hard to find! >:(
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S :)o there is still hope for us to find M/C polymer $5
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Here's one for sale on ebay. However, the seller is asking $100 for it and it's very well circulated. I want one but that's way too much for something we don't know the value yet. They are starting to appear slowly, there is hope for me to find one.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321363640064?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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$175.00 + $9.95 for economy shipping ::)
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If you want it I could go and buy it for you as it is in Edmonton and mail it to you for a couple of bucks you would save at least $5 in shipping ;) ;) ;)
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Here's mine:
This is the first time I can remember one of these notes being offered publicly, so that means there is no baseline for what these notes are worth. Naturally, we don't know how many of these notes will be released. At this stage, it looks unlikely that there will be a major release. The few M/C notes known all have serial numbers covering a small range. A public listing like this one could help bring to light more such notes if others are out there.
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Its actually possible these notes that were circulated were issued as replacement notes.
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Its actually possible these notes that were circulated were issued as replacement notes.
Or test notes. ;D
The more I think about it, the more it seems unrealistic to expect any major release of Macklem-Carney $5 polymer notes. Had Mark Carney simply retired from the BoC and gone into private life, I think it wouldn't be a big deal to see his name on all issues of notes for years to come (since polymer notes should have longer life expectancies in circulation). But since he is now with the Bank of England, I think that spurred the need to get something into circulation that had the name of the actual governor, Stephen Poloz. Add to that the fact that Tiff Macklem announced his retirement a mere month following the release of the $5 note last year. That means the BoC could have a vault full of polymer $5 notes bearing the signatures of two soon-to-be-former employees, both of whom are leaving in somewhat dubious circumstances. Because the release of the polymer $5 note was moved up, it's possible that no Macklem-Poloz notes were available for publicity purposes, so some of the Macklem-Carney notes that got out of the vault ended up in circulation.
To date, there are 6 Macklem-Carney polymer $5 notes known (5 found since the November 2013 release), and their serial numbers cover a range of about 200,000. Their discoveries have not been linked to one specific geographical location.
The asking price of the note on eBay seems high, but that's only because there is still the possibility that someone could find a bunch of these notes. Perhaps a couple of years from now, $175 will be an absolute bargain.
With Tiff Macklem stepping down in May, again I must say that I find it hard to believe that the Bank of Canada will release any appreciable quantity of Macklem-Carney notes. The initial $5 notes released had prefixes HBG-HBR. Now we are seeing additional prefixes from HBS-HCB. All indications are that the BoC is moving forward, not backward.
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If anyone has one of these for sale or know where to get one, please PM me. :)
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I have one, but... I'm really on the fence about whether I should keep it or not. I mean, I don't want to sell it for $20 and have it turn out to be worth hundreds a few months down the road.
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I have one, but... I'm really on the fence about whether I should keep it or not. I mean, I don't want to sell it for $20 and have it turn out to be worth hundreds a few months down the road.
You should hang onto it until the truth about these notes come to life. You could have a rare piece!
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You should hang onto it until the truth about these notes come to life. You could have a rare piece!
Of course. These could be nearly impossible to replace, now and in the future. A good story will just confirm the numbers we're seeing.
Like the others, my note is circulated (VF) with folds but no impairments. When I got this note, it was right on top of a bunch of fives, so my eyes got really big and I wondered how many more could be inside the bunch. But of course, there were no others, so that top note was just a tease.
I'm always open to offers, but I doubt I'll get any.
NOTE: ImageShack does not appear to be working. Keep getting an error message every time I try to upload ("Oops, something went wrong (XML return failed)" )
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Another HBG M/C has been listed on eBay but the auction finished yesterday. Unlike the last one, this one was sold for over $200. The condition of the note isn't that great.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/271532287876?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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I've been looking for months but finally managed to find one of the elusive Macklem-Carney polymer fives in my till at work today. I could hardly believe it when I saw the serial numbers, and when I flipped it over there was Mr. Carney's signature! It's an HBG in the same range as the rest that have been reported and is not in too bad of shape. I would call it somewhere in the neighbourhood of VF-EF. Keep looking, they're out there!
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I've been looking for months but finally managed to find one of the elusive Macklem-Carney polymer fives in my till at work today.
Nice find! What city?
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Nice find! What city?
Just outside Victoria, BC. Here's the weird thing: I found another one yesterday. Also HBG in the 3.2M range but not in as good of shape as the other. I'm wondering if it's just a fluke or if the banks over here have bundles of them. Time will tell.
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Anyone else have success at finding UNC M/C 5's? And are they willing to sell them?
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Anyone else have success at finding UNC M/C 5's? And are they willing to sell them?
I can only speak for myself, but I'm guessing if people have found any they will enter them in the SNDB. Looks like there have only been 14 reported so far. Which, has grown from about 8 over the last 2 months or so. So to answer your question, are people finding them? Yes they are, albeit slowly. Are they UNC? Not likely, I don't think any of these were found in a fresh brick or essentially un handled (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Anything I've come across or I've seen discussed here has been less than an UNC grade.
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I'm guessing if people have found any they will enter them in the SNDB
Unfortunately, I do not believe that this is true...there are those that will keep their finds to themselves, and others that have no idea that the SNDB even exists...
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Unfortunately, I do not believe that this is true...there are those that will keep their finds to themselves, and others that have no idea that the SNDB even exists...
^This and to answer the question of IamCollector I have not found any let alone in unc condition. They do appear to be a rare breed at the moment.
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If HBG prefix has M/C signatures and M/P signatures would they both be rare with same prefix?
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S :)o there is still hope for us to find M/C polymer $5
Only M/C polymer $5.00 in a very small range of HBG have been reported & are of interest in this thread I believe. There is still hope -but it seems to be a slim chance at that.
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Well it appears the changeover has been confirmed by the BoC for the change in signatures on the HBG 5$ notes. But something looks off. Note these numbers are taken from the SNDB. Check it out for yourselves!
M/C HBG : Low 0000000 Hi 3619999
M/P HBG : Low 4700000
It appears there are HBG M/C notes that are outside of the range of those that have been found so far. But the question now is will any of those other notes make it into circulation? And it appears notes with prefixes HAM-HBF never existed (or the BoC just destroyed them all because I think its a little far fetched that they just decided to skip these prefixes :D ::) ).
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And it appears notes with prefixes HAM-HBF never existed (or the BoC just destroyed them all because I think its a little far fetched that they just decided to skip these prefixes :D ::) ).
I don't think it is far-fetched at all. They did not intend to skip these prefixes. But they were compelled to do this likely as the result of notes in the range of HBG being printed before anything else, and then with the signature changeover, they decided they could not go back and print Macklem-Poloz notes and give them prefixes that come before HBG. That would create, in effect, a range of HBG Macklem-Carney "good-overs". I made a lengthy post a couple of months ago discussing this theory and comparing it to the whole topic of EKZ $100 notes...
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=14363.msg62917#msg62917
If I was a betting man, I would say that the first $100 notes of the polymer series were given the prefix EKZ. So it follows that the first $5 Macklem-Carney notes were given prefix HBG with the anticipation that prefixes HAM-HBG would all be printed with the same signatures.
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Why did they start at HBG for the polymer $5s? Why not start at HAN? That's 160 million serial numbers they skipped. Had they perhaps anticipated that they might have needed to print that many more Journey series notes to meet demand before the polymer $5s were ready, and that demand never materialized?
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It appears there are HBG M/C notes that are outside of the range of those that have been found so far.
What notes? All reported HBG M/C notes fall within the range listed on the SNDB.
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What notes? All reported HBG M/C notes fall within the range listed on the SNDB.
I think you misinterpreted what I said. I meant that there are HBG notes with M/C signatures with serial numbers outside the range of serial numbers of notes found by people in circulation. Meaning according to the BoC confirmation, HBG notes with serial numbers from 0 to about 3200000 would have M/C signatures and do exist. The lowest M/C note found to date is around 3200000 and so the confirmation gives the possibility of finding some with numbers less than that. That is what I meant, sorry for any confusion it may have caused. :)
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Well, that's only what the Bank of Canada is saying. Actual findings clearly do vary. Whether or not the notes actually do exist or made their way into circulation is totally unknown.
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In other words, what BWJM is saying is that the Bank of Canada is not 100% reliable in the information it releases. So take their inference that HBG 0000000-3200000 exists with a grain of salt until we have confirmed evidence of these notes. The front-line people who provide the information to us tend to be the least qualified to answer the questions of collectors. They have no idea if the information they provide is totally factual as they have to obtain it from other BoC employees who may or may not be willing to divulge the whole truth. In fact, I would go as far as to speculate that the claim that HBG 0000000-3200000 exists may be fabricated to make Macklem-Carney notes seem less rare and thus less appealing. But again, some simple proof would go a long way to confirming that they exist.
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Well it appears the changeover has been confirmed by the BoC for the change in signatures on the HBG 5$ notes. But something looks off. Note these numbers are taken from the SNDB. Check it out for yourselves!
M/C HBG : Low 0000000 Hi 3619999
So that means 3,620,000 HBG-M/C would have been printed.
This number is not divisible by 45 it being the number of notes on a sheet as we know them. For that matter this number is not even divisible by 3.
It would seem that there is something strange happening here.
And just because the BoC has confirmed that the first number is 0000000 and the last number is 3619999 does not automatically follow that all the numbers in between had to have been printed, unless of course that is what the BoC specifically confirmed.
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In fact, I would go as far as to speculate that the claim that HBG 0000000-3200000 exists may be fabricated to make Macklem-Carney notes seem less rare and thus less appealing.
You're giving someone at the Bank a lot of credit. I believe that it's simply a matter of pretty much everything else you've said (ill-informed front line employees, etc.) plus a healthy dose of trumped up "security" concerns and a deep-running "we don't care" culture when it comes to the collecting community.
One of the key reasons why the SNDB exists is to collect data for situations like this. The serial numbers reported via this website have been confirming (or in some cases disproving) the information given to us from the Bank of Canada for over a decade.
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We have seen this before where confirmed ranges doesn't necessarily mean all notes within that range was circulated. A few examples... $5 HOH 2004 confirmed changeover 5970000 yet only notes under 0.2M were actually circulated. $10 FEV 2004 confirmed to end at 4310999 yet the highest reported was around the 1.00M range. In fact, the insert range for FEV is 0.36-1.035M and all FEV notes reported to-date have only been in that range, so no regular FEV note has ever surfaced. So very likely that the HBG will be the same, only a handfull were circulated all within the same range. Perhaps this might be the case with the $100 EKZ notes.
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A few examples... $5 HOH 2004 confirmed changeover 5970000 yet only notes under 0.2M were actually circulated.
Correction to this posting, there was indeed one note found above 0.2M (5950855) and that was by kobecurrency in oct 2013 according to the serial number database, which makes you wonder even more just where the others are??? There may have been one sheet just before the changeover that got circulated.
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Kobecurrency do you have a photo of the 2004 HOH5950855?
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Even in the Charlton catalog up until the 26th edition it is written on the 2002 $5 page Highest reported HOH 2004 is HOH0187763. Is there still a note about HOH 2004 notes listed in the 27th edition?
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Kobecurrency do you have a photo of the 2004 HOH5950855?
Unfortunately I don't.
I do remember when I input it last Oct., it showed that the previous high was something may be in the 0.2 range. I did double check the print date was right and if my posting was correct. I held it out for a while to see if anyone would mention it here, but nothing happened.
Later when we were all looking for HBG M/C, I believe I inadvertently turned it into the bank within thinking. Now I don't have anything to prove I did have that note.:'( :'(
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Even in the Charlton catalog up until the 26th edition it is written on the 2002 $5 page Highest reported HOH 2004 is HOH0187763. Is there still a note about HOH 2004 notes listed in the 27th edition?
Yes the note is still there in the new 27 th edition
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Sorry Kobe :( That would have been an interesting note keep.
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Woohoo! Got one in my change from the Timmy's near my office. It's seen better days, but at least I have one!
SN: HBG3299563
(With that bit of luck, maybe I should buy a lottery ticket!!! :D).
John
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I'm curious about what parts of Canada these M/C Frontier notes have been found in. Anyone who has pulled one from circulation, please post!
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I'm curious about what parts of Canada these M/C Frontier notes have been found in. Anyone who has pulled one from circulation, please post!
I have been keeping track of M/C polymer fives, reported on the forum and/or SNDB, or sold on eBay. Here is where they have been found:
2 in Victoria
1 in Vancouver
3-4 in Edmonton
7-8 in Southern Ontario
1 in Mississauga
2 in Ottawa
1 in Montreal
1 in New Brunswick
I have looked for these notes since May here in Toronto, and have not found any.
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I found one yesterday when I got a bundle of fives from the bank.
HBG 3447043 19 19
Took me months and months of searching! :)
Dean
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I found one yesterday when I got a bundle of fives from the bank.
HBG 3447043 19 19
Took me months and months of searching! :)
Dean
Here are some pictures of my note!!
Dean
{attach:3341} {attach:3342} {attach:3343}
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Nice find, Dean! I have yet to come across one. :(
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Nice find, Dean! I have yet to come across one. :(
Neither have i. From what i see, these notes seem to be equally as rare as the famous $10 BEL and BER notes. They're around but it will take some time finding one.
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Hi,
Do the Macklem-Carney HBG notes have a Charlton number yet?
Dean
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The current catalogue lists them as BC-69a with the Macklem/Poloz notes being BC-69b.
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Do you think the Macklem Carney HBG notes are worthy of a registry? There are only 25 reported so far in the SNDB.
Dean
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Stumbled on this article today...had a photo of an HBG Carney note:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/photos/canadian-five-10-dollar-bills-made-polymer-displayed-photo-142411894--finance.html
The new Canadian five and 10 dollar bills, made of polymer, are displayed following an unveiling ceremony at the Bank of Canada in Ottawa April 30, 2013. REUTERS/Chris Wattie
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/coinsplus/imagejpg1_zps7f7aa240.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/coinsplus/media/imagejpg1_zps7f7aa240.jpg.html)
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I'm still scratching my head over what happened between HAL and HBG. It's just such a huge gap. How many more notes were printed in there (either Journey series notes that were unreleased, or Frontier notes with carney's autograph) that got destroyed? Having such a huge gap leads me to believe it's a lot.
I doubt we'll ever know.
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I doubt that they really destroyed so many notes, it would be a big waste of money. I think they either never printed them (but that would be strange) or they were stacked in the very back of the vault at first and they started emptying the vault from the front with the newer notes first and the early ones are still waiting as they keep adding new notes to the front. Maybe we'll see older notes come out later in time.
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Maybe we'll see older notes come out later in time.
Its very doubtful but then again you never know.
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I doubt that they really destroyed so many notes, it would be a big waste of money. I think they either never printed them (but that would be strange) or they were stacked in the very back of the vault at first and they started emptying the vault from the front with the newer notes first and the early ones are still waiting as they keep adding new notes to the front. Maybe we'll see older notes come out later in time.
I received an email from the Bank of Canada and they said the missing prefixes were never printed. They said that "timing of note production and the Bank's transition from former Governor Mark Carney to Governor Stephen S. Poloz" account for the gap.
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I received an email from the Bank of Canada and they said the missing prefixes were never printed. They said that "timing of note production and the Bank's transition from former Governor Mark Carney to Governor Stephen S. Poloz" account for the gap.
Thank you for sharing the information. It is good to see that others are having some good response from the BoC.
But what about the full range of the prefixes that were printed, i.e. HAE to HAL ? Did you pose that question?
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No, I only asked about HAM-HBF.
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Thank you for sharing the information. It is good to see that others are having some good response from the BoC.
But what about the full range of the prefixes that were printed, i.e. HAE to HAL ? Did you pose that question?
It would be interesting to know the outcome of these notes as it would appear that all these notes were issued in full however it seems clear that many bricks were never circulated and probably destroyed.
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I see there is a listing on ebay for 100 consecutive notes today.
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I see there is a listing on ebay for 100 consecutive notes today.
Funny how these notes are still described as RARE and GREAT INVESTMENTS...more of these available than many common notes :-D
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Funny how these notes are still described as RARE and GREAT INVESTMENTS...more of these available than many common notes :-D
At least 50% of the notes on eBay are "rare". Well, if you go by the titles and descriptions.
I have yet to see these common HBG notes here in Eastern ON. They are scarce if they were never released in your town. They are even scarcer if you live outside Canada. No matter how common they are, there will always be some appeal for them given that this is the first time since the 1937 series that a signature combination occurred entirely within one $5 prefix (Osborne-Towers A/C).
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finally found one today
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finally found one today
{attach:3454}
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Been hitting banks in town buying $200 in $5 bills at a time. Found 5 hbg m/c notes in great shape, and today got 10 consecutive brand new notes. Going to go back tomorrow! They obviously have more uncirculated hbg m/c $5's :P
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;D
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I received 24 $5 notes selling girl guide cookies with my daughters today, and 3 of those were M/C HBGs. My first ones!
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I received 24 $5 notes selling girl guide cookies with my daughters today, and 3 of those were M/C HBGs. My first ones!
These notes are very easy to find now except in the 3M range. Which numbers did you get? I got one last month in perfect GEM in 1M range. I think that all notes <3M were 100% released into circulation however i have some doubts about notes >3M. Still think these might be worth a lot more.
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got a HBG3026728 in change at Starbucks in Edmonton last week
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These notes are very easy to find now except in the 3M range. Which numbers did you get? I got one last month in perfect GEM in 1M range. I think that all notes <3M were 100% released into circulation however i have some doubts about notes >3M. Still think these might be worth a lot more.
Bricks have already been found in 3 M ranges as a matter of fact a forum member is selling notes from brick 3.2 M
so I don't think they are rarer than <3M
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These notes are very easy to find now except in the 3M range. Which numbers did you get?
0.2, 0.6, and 2.1 M
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These notes are very easy to find now
I've only found TWO circulated Carney HBG notes in the last year. They're pretty scarce here in Toronto.
Dean
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Had a bank teller friend trying to find those HGB notes for months now. Now that they are now more common she found me a bundle yesterday very nice G-UNC. 2.7 mil range....Ill try add these to the database