CPM Forum

Canadian Notes => Early Canadian Notes => Topic started by: Bernie on July 05, 2010, 07:45:09 pm

Title: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: Bernie on July 05, 2010, 07:45:09 pm

See slide below.

The 1860-1861 issue of the Bank of Clifton notes came in denominations of $1, $2, and $5. They were issued in 3 varieties which are distinguished by the date of issue. The first variety has an engraved date of 1860. The second variety was printed with the same plate; however, the engraved "0" in 1860 was overwritten with a manuscript "1". The third variety was printed with a newly engraved "1861" date.

So, my question: In over ten years, I have yet to see an example ($1, 2, or 5) of the first variety - the engraved 1860 date. There is none in the online version of the Bank of Canada Museum. Charlton only shows images of the later two varieties. So where are the the 1860 notes?

In over ten years I have seen over 25 examples of the 1860/1 variety and over 85 examples of the 1861 variety.

Were all of the 1860 notes used to create the 1860/1 notes??

Finally a couple of questions for Bob: If my above supposition is true (or only partially true), why are the Charlton catalog values of the 1860 notes only ~10% higher than the 1860/1 and 1860 varieties? Although my sample size is not very large, should there even be a difference in value for the 1860/1 versus 1861 varieties? Does the Bank of Canada Museum have any 1860 varieties that are in some back room and not online?

{http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4395/1860cliftonnotesw.jpg:http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4395/1860cliftonnotesw.th.jpg}

Title: Re: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: Bob on July 07, 2010, 08:56:34 am

Bernie:  I sent you a PM.
Does anybody know of an unaltered 1860?

Title: Re: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: Bernie on July 07, 2010, 04:06:23 pm

Here are the actual populations of these notes that I have tracked in the last 10+ years.

{http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5568/clifton2populations.jpg:http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5568/clifton2populations.th.jpg}

Title: Re: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: Elwoodbluesca on July 07, 2010, 06:30:41 pm

Bernie,

This topic and your research would make an excellent article for the next CPMS newsletter.

Title: Re: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: Bernie on July 07, 2010, 11:37:40 pm

Elwoodbluesca said: "CPMS Member 1605"

I didn't know CPMS has been around that long?

Title: Re: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: BWJM on July 07, 2010, 11:46:14 pm

The CPMS has been around since 1964. Our latest life member is numbered somewhere just over 100, and our newest regular member is in the high 1660's.

In fact, our newest member just signed up online tonight.

Title: Re: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: Bernie on July 12, 2010, 01:23:46 pm

I submitted an article on this topic to the CPMS newsletter that should appear in the September issue.

Has anyone out there actually seen an 1860 Clifton note?

If anyone wishes to contribute notes to the census, I would appreciate front and back scans at a minimum resolution of 150 dpi. Additional useful information would include the serial number, date on the banknote, plate letter, whether the signature is “James Brown” or “J. Brown,” what kind, if any, of stamps are on the back of the note, condition, date of sale, seller, and price realized.

Title: Re: Where are the 1860 Bank of Clifton Notes?
Post by: Bernie on October 13, 2010, 09:48:26 am

The paper was published in the Canadian Paper Money Newsletter. An online version can be obtained at the CPMS: http://www.cpmsonline.ca It has a very interesting conclusion.

I am still looking for contributions to my data base.