Rusty Notes

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Hey Guys,

I have a question about rust spots on bank notes.  I recently purchased a lot of 1954 $10 consecutive notes.  They are in great looking uncirculated condition, except for the fact that they have rust stains on the outer white portion of the notes.  They do look very well centred and sharp corners.  I'm just wondering how badly this impacts the grade?  If I were to send one of these off, would it come back UNC (assuming they would come back UNC without the rust stains)?  Or would the rust bring it to like a 40 or 50?  I'm not in them too much money.  Only paid about $16 a note.  I will post pictures as soon as I take some!

Thanks!

Hey Guys,
I I'm just wondering how badly this impacts the grade?  If I were to send one of these off, would it come back UNC (assuming they would come back UNC without the rust stains)?  Or would the rust bring it to like a 40 or 50?
  I'm not in them too much money.  Only paid about $16 a note.  I will post pictures as soon as I take some!

Thanks!

Depends on how much rust and how visible they are, yes they could drop the grade down from UNC to EF to even VF. At least you only paid $16/note, no loss

IF you send it to an US TPG, itll come back with a technical grade of UNC, but it will NOT get EPQ or PPQ. It'll get either a NET (PMG) or APPARENT (PCGS) with "Rust Stain" or "Rust" in the notes section of the certificate.

Im unsure about BCS if they will actually drop the technical grade or not, but I dont think it'll get the "Original" Designation.

Thank you for your information!  Just wondering if they were worth getting graded in that condition.  I mostly purchased them to sell, but if they won't sell for anything more than I paid, I may just hang on to them for a while.  Charlton says they are 60 in Gem UNCm which they obviously would not be, but if they could get an UNC designation they would still be worth selling if I could get them for around 25 - 30 a note.  These $10 notes are the Beattie & Rasminsky with N/V prefix.  So they are fairly common.  The rust is more of a light staining on the outermost portion (white border) of the notes, some more obvious than others.

Here are just a few of the notes to take a look at.

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{http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9075/77k5.jpg:http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9075/77k5.th.jpg}

Personally I think these notes would not grade unc as they do not have eye appeal and the rust is to evident to be considered minor
I definitely would not spend any money on getting them graded...it may even cost you more than you paid for the note.
Even if they were not stained they are very common and again grading them does not make any sense
What you paid is likely what they are worth....I don't see you making money on them
If you are collecting I always recommend buy the best you can afford and you won't regret it in the end....buying notes that have flaws will always be an eyesore in the end
IMHO

the rust is to evident to be considered minor

Just curious to know if there are any reasons for the rust colour to form on the notes?

At least the journey series notes were touted as being not able to be penetrated by stains from one side to the other. So to have stains on both sides of the notes makes me curious.

Thx

There are probably hundreds of ways that the rust appeared on all the notes/fronts/backs but I have seen some notes that were kept in a small cash box in a garage where the notes had very similar rust markings...I assumed the rust formed due to condensation forming on the metal box because of temperature fluctuations and because the bills were bundled together it seems to have saturated the bills through and through...

Just curious to know if there are any reasons for the rust colour to form on the notes?

As far as I know they were discovered in a safe on the west coast of Newfoundland.  They were found wrapped in tissue and tin paper.  Why, I do not know!  But like I said, they are still very crisp and don't appear to have 'water' damage.  Like I said, some of the notes are worse than others.  I may just try breaking them up and selling them in sets of 3 or 5 or something and hope to make a little something from them.  The notes do also have a strong odour.  I don't think they were bleached.  How would I be able to be sure of this?

Thanks!

I would bet if the notes were in a safe and it was airtight it is likely the musty smell is mildew...
Without circulation notes and paper will smell ....even when you handle the notes yours hands will smell as well..
not pleasant

I would bet if the notes were in a safe and it was airtight it is likely the musty smell is mildew...

That could be it.  I didn't think it smelled of bleach.  But, wasn't sure.  Still rather stinky.  Not so bad when I got them in plastic holders and separate from one another though.  Hopefully the stench subdues.

Don't count on strong odors going away on their own.  Could still be around years later.  There are ways to get rid of odors, but that would compromise the integrity of the notes. 

Like I have said elsewhere, I don't believe in net grading, that is, rounding grades down due to flaws.  Stains are not evidence of handling.  If anything, they are signs of a lack of handling and poor storage, as others have suggested.  I can't comment if the notes are technically uncirculated... they may be, or they may have been altered due to someone using bleach to try to get the stains out.  The stains speak for themselves, and they will deter a lot of interest, so don't expect to get high prices for these notes as the result of bidder competition.  Better make the starting price whatever you want to get for these notes.

  Better make the starting price whatever you want to get for these notes.

I listed three of those particular notes on a local ad asking for $110.  Obviously higher than I expected to get from them.  I'd ideally like to get 30 a note, but I'd do 25 a note.  Just testing the waters.  Maybe I'd hang on to them.  They may be worth more in 20 years!   :-D

I strongly doubt you'll get $110. These notes as they appear from the pic above would likely get a grade of EF making them worth about $16 a piece. The other problem is that these are very common $10 notes so there are a lot of these notes around on the market. Though the notes were probably never circulated, they probably feel crisp and new, its those rust stains that are really going to hurt the value of your notes.

I strongly doubt you'll get $110.

I doubt I'll get $110 for three notes, however, I think I could get closer to $25 - $30 a note.  I'm just testing the waters though.  I could be off.  I still wouldn't mind getting one graded to see what kind of grade BCS or PMG would give them.  Maybe send one to each as they are all generally in the same condition.  At least then I'd have a better idea of what condition the notes actually are instead of guessing as to what they would be graded as.

Thanks!

I doubt I'll get $110 for three notes, however, I think I could get closer to $25 - $30 a note.  I'm just testing the waters though.  I could be off.  I still wouldn't mind getting one graded to see what kind of grade BCS or PMG would give them.  Maybe send one to each as they are all generally in the same condition.  At least then I'd have a better idea of what condition the notes actually are instead of guessing as to what they would be graded as.

Thanks!

That sounds like an interesting experiment (i.e., sending notes to two different companies).  Please keep us updated as to the results.

That sounds like an interesting experiment (i.e., sending notes to two different companies).  Please keep us updated as to the results.

I checked pricing in general on the TPG.  It tends to get expensive fast!  One note is usually around $15.  Then you have to ship it to them.  Then there's a $20 delivery charge, and taxes atop all that.  Add extra for insurance.  Not really worth the $50 just to get a ten dollar note graded (unless it was a rare one).  I listed those three notes on eBay as buy it now (with best offer), just to test the waters.  Although, I feel that buy it now tends to get ignored sometimes.  If I put them up as auction style, people would probably start bidding each other up.  Either way, I'm waiting for someone to make me an offer.  I'm assuming the rust is deterring people.

I'll keep you posted!  Thanks folks!

I think these are going to be a tough sell...but good luck.