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Topic: $1000 Bill  (Read 16745 times)
herbo6
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« on: March 05, 2013, 09:15:30 pm »

I have had this bill for some time and decided to find out if its worth more than face value before I take it to the bank.
I have read a few other posts about these $1000 bills but couldnt make out the signatures on this one.

Any help would be grateful as I dont want to turn it over to the bank if its worth more than I think.

Serial AK 1993767
I posted an image but it looks a little grainy

Thanks,
herbo6
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2013, 09:30:54 pm »

Last picture didnt work, so hopefully this one does


{http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6465/1000ha.jpg:http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6465/1000ha.th.jpg}
Dean
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 10:55:17 pm »

The note is the last of the 1954 modified $1000 varieties BC44e.
They were released in the early 1990's just before the Birds $1000.  It looks to be in VF condition and could fetch $1050-$1100 to an interested buyer.

Hope that helps,
Dean

Squad-G
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 12:08:44 pm »

If you can, keep it. It's pretty rare and will be more in the future... but, don't know about the value in the future.

See my banknotes collection at http://banknotes.davidbelanger.net/.
Find special numbers for your banknotes quickly by using this tool. Useful for the bundles.
Mortgage Guy
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 01:07:21 pm »

If you can, keep it. It's pretty rare and will be more in the future... but, don't know about the value in the future.

Which one is it, will it be up or down in the future?

This note will only be worth less in the future and yes even if you pull out the face value in the future this will add up to a loss. Since you have lost the value of inflation for every year you have kept this note for take a picture, return the note to the bank and stop losing money.

Regards,
MG

Always Buying Any Replacements and Special Serial Numbered Notes In C.Unc+ Condition
mmars
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 01:52:20 pm »

Totally agree with MG.  Inflation eats away at value.  Even if this note is worth $1,600 in 10 years, your gains are wiped out and more if it takes $2,000 to buy what $1,100 buys today.

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walktothewater
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 04:05:00 pm »

Quote
take a picture, return the note to the bank and stop losing money.
OR
use it to buy a Gem UNC 2003 BC-63c $10 Jenkins/Dodge BEL (that's where I'd put it if I didn't need a new tv :'(

herbo6
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 08:18:47 pm »

Thanks everyone for the quick replies.
My wife cashed it in at the bank today, the teller was a little surprised to see it.

A little sad to let it go just because of the "Neat" factor but really a $1000 now can do a lot more than a $1000 in 10 years can if it isn't really that collectible or won't go up in value that much.
alvin5454
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 08:54:24 pm »

RESP or RRSP is always a good way to generate more value for money of little collector value that is a gift or found. Too bad it's a bit late for this tax season...
Bruxi
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 07:04:28 pm »

"Take it to the bank" is never great advice.  Dean is right - these sell on Kijiji very quickly for $1050 to $1100.
friedsquid
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 08:07:08 pm »

"Take it to the bank" is never great advice.  Dean is right - these sell on Kijiji very quickly for $1050 to $1100.
I agree should have tried to sell it and buy you and your wife a nice lobster dinner for the profits :)



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
coinsplus
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 10:32:44 pm »

I also agree with the comments above about selling the note.  You could easily sold it for $1,025+ or more.  An instant 2.5% vs... 1.25% for the entire year in some high interest savings account.

  Smile from your heart.  ;D
Rupiah
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 03:28:58 am »

I am not sure where we get inflation values from but $1100 today at 3% inflation (which is much higher than real inflation today) will cost $1350 10 years from today and not $1600.

If you purely look at it from an investment perspective I would like someone to recommend me a banknote that I can purchase today that will give me 7% per annum compounded  total return for the next 10 years. I am willing to lay a firiendly wager that if the note increases in value by more than 7% the person who recommends it to me keeps the excess but if it makes less than 7% they pay me the shortfall.

Surely if I can find a radar or a solid or a low serial number note in circulation or through a brick search I can instantly make the money but if I purchase it at the going rate my return in future years will not meet my expectations. For example if I purchased a $5 replacement at $25 today to meet my objectives it would have to sell at $49 in 10 years for me to realize a 7% return. Have replacements bought at fair market value in 2003 doubled in price today. If this was the case similar replacements (in terms of rarity) from 2001 would be selling at twice the price of replacements from 2012. The reality is that they are selling at about the same price e.g. $5 journey notes from 2003 v/s $5 journey notes from 2010 with similar print volumes are about the same price in Charlton.

IMHO there is no intrinsic dollar value in banknote collection other than face value and therefore future values can only be predictated by the vagaries of market place. At best any investment in banknotes would be considered a high risk investment and therefore speculative.

IMHO the only people who consistently make money in selling collectibles are those that make a business out of it, those that make supplies for collectibles and those that inherit or get lucky and run into the collectibles at below market prices.

The rest of us who may not make money can at least strive to enjoy what we collect. Once in a while we may get lucky and hit a jackpot but only if there is someone else willing to buy from us because they want to enjoy what we might have. :)





 

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
mmars
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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 03:43:49 am »

Selling high denomination notes at slightly above face value is:
- inherently risky;
- a hassle.
Just my opinion.  Anyone that wants to do it, have at 'er.

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Mortgage Guy
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2013, 11:05:20 am »

I am not sure where we get inflation values from but $1100 today at 3% inflation (which is much higher than real inflation today) will cost $1350 10 years from today and not $1600.

This isn’t correct and the value would be $1,478.31

If you purely look at it from an investment perspective I would like someone to recommend me a banknote that I can purchase today that will give me 7% per annum compounded  total return for the next 10 years. I am willing to lay a firiendly wager that if the note increases in value by more than 7% the person who recommends it to me keeps the excess but if it makes less than 7% they pay me the shortfall.

Are you only interested in a gross return of 7%? Or a net return after inflation of 7%? This is a common mistake made by many which would explain mosts disappointing investment gains over time.

Surely if I can find a radar or a solid or a low serial number note in circulation or through a brick search I can instantly make the money but if I purchase it at the going rate my return in future years will not meet my expectations. For example if I purchased a $5 replacement at $25 today to meet my objectives it would have to sell at $49 in 10 years for me to realize a 7% return. Have replacements bought at fair market value in 2003 doubled in price today. If this was the case similar replacements (in terms of rarity) from 2001 would be selling at twice the price of replacements from 2012. The reality is that they are selling at about the same price e.g. $5 journey notes from 2003 v/s $5 journey notes from 2010 with similar print volumes are about the same price in Charlton.

Since you forgot to use inflation in your calculations your gain at 7% minus inflation would be much lower than you would think. If you were lucky enough to get 7% per year minus inflation you would end up with $38.42, which is a huge difference, especially if you start adding digits. As for values doubling over the past 10 years and finding notes that can grow at 7% per year, they do exist and are around to those that look for them. Keep in mind that the Charlton catalogue is more wrong than right and until this changes their will be tons of missed priced notes but unless you take the time to do your homework one will assume the values represented in the catalogue to be right. I find in interesting that true collectors do not want to make returns on their bank notes since such act seems to instantly make then speculators. Although I have only heard people say that they buy their collections for the pure joy of collecting, I can say after hundreds of transitions I have never bought from such collectors but I’m still looking for them as posts on the forum alludes to their existence.

IMHO there is no intrinsic dollar value in banknote collection other than face value and therefore future values can only be predictated by the vagaries of market place. At best any investment in banknotes would be considered a high risk investment and therefore speculative.

As an example, a high-risk investment is someone that buys a house and leverages his or her investment by 20 to 1 (5% down/95% Debt), as a 10% drop would be a 200% loss. A bank note cannot go to zero, only face value. Calling it high risk and speculative is a little exaggerated. People’s emotions are what truly make things risky.

IMHO the only people who consistently make money in selling collectibles are those that make a business out of it, those that make supplies for collectibles and those that inherit or get lucky and run into the collectibles at below market prices.

The rest of us who may not make money can at least strive to enjoy what we collect. Once in a while we may get lucky and hit a jackpot but only if there is someone else willing to buy from us because they want to enjoy what we might have. :)

Are you implying that ones that make money aren’t able to enjoy their collections? Perhaps they can enjoy it so much more since they get much more bang for their buck  ;)

Regards,
MG





 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 11:07:26 am by Mortgage Guy »

Always Buying Any Replacements and Special Serial Numbered Notes In C.Unc+ Condition
Bruxi
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2013, 11:37:08 am »

Most collectors are not in it for profit or investment, but if they are looking to make money to fund purchases, the best way to get a decent return in my opinion is to:
- turnover vs. buy and hold (ie. make 10 buck more than you bought it for, but in a short time frame, not years later)
- use markets like Kijiji and ebay where there are thousands of buyers and someone will love what you have for sale
In my experience, if you do these two things, you will get a good return.  But the most important part of getting a good return is not overpaying when you buy.  I think we've all overpaid at some point - I know I have.  Anyway, I'm not in it to make money, but it's a great part of this hobby that you can own something incredibly cool, and then make money from it should you choose to sell!
Weeles
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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2013, 12:20:14 pm »

  Anyway, I'm not in it to make money, but it's a great part of this hobby that you can own something incredibly cool, and then make money from it should you choose to sell!

I totally agree with ibrooks here, I personally am trying to get one of each denomination and year for my collection. Yeah I have some rare ones that I should be able to get profit on if I choose to sell someday and I do look for them if I can get them at a good price for the collection but I am not going to pay book value to get them.

 For me the fact I can own some older history with banknotes is amazing, I do wish the newer bills though had vignettes like the older ones do. There were some really great ones back in the old days.  :)

 Wayne.

Been collecting few bills for about 15 years but now getting into more serious collecting.

Rupiah
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« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2013, 07:21:31 pm »

Quote
This isn’t correct and the value would be $1,478.31
That is right - $1100 dollar is what I said where I meant $1000.  Thx for setting that thing right.

Quote
Are you only interested in a gross return of 7%? Or a net return after inflation of 7%? This is a common mistake made by many which would explain mosts disappointing investment gains over time.
Point is well taken but in the current economic environment I would be happy with a 7% gross return.  :)
Any suggestions? :(

Quote
I find in interesting that true collectors do not want to make returns on their bank notes since such act seems to instantly make then speculators.

In  my experience there are lots more collectors than the membership of the CPM forum. Many of these people are collecting because they find something fun and interesting in doing so. How do I know? Well invariably anytime I mention my interest in arm-chair numismatic to someone they bring something out of their "collections" to share with me. I am sure others have had similar experience. Many of these people "believe" that as things get  old they will have more value. Even an arm chair collector like me often knows that a vast majority of such collections are no more than face value.

So of course everyone wants to make money on their collection. Who does not. You would be crazy not to expect to. I think what most people mean by speculation is that there is no resonable way of assuring with an informed probability a the time of purchase  what if  any kind of collection will provide a stipulated return. So it is not the act of collection that makes anyone a speculator nor is it the act of expecting a return. To me  speculators are not interested in collecting at all. While collectors are not only interested in the intrinsic value of collecting but MAY (for emphasis)  also be interested in getting a return. In fact as you mentioned it takes a seasoned collector (often with an appetite for risk) to do both and most collectors do not fall into this category.

Quote
Although I have only heard people say that they buy their collections for the pure joy of collecting, I can say after hundreds of transitions I have never bought from such collectors but I’m still looking for them as posts on the forum alludes to their existence.

I have seen this sentiment expressed before but I am not sure what it means. Guys like me who collect for fun have nothing worthwhile to offer to seasoned collectors :(. So perhaps that is why you have never bought from people like us who see better return on the money than investing in high priced radars and replacements whose values have no basis other than those published in some catalogs.

Here is what gets me excited and perhaps everyone in this forum may laugh at me but thats what it is. Call me a loser if you will but that's what I mean by finding a meaning to your collection.

{http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5073/5aontower.jpg:http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5073/5aontower.th.jpg}

What do you see? The A forming the top of the roof as if it was a sloped roof with an apex rather than with a flat portion.

Would anyone be willing to buy this if I were to offer it for sale?  Would Charlton even list it? I am willing to take offers beyond my intrinsic joy reserve of $50.

There we go. Once everyone has stopped laughing at my asking $50 for it will be clear why there is nothing to buy from people like me. But don't get me wrong I am having as much or more fun as a person with all zeros in collection or a bunch of different prefixes with same serial numbers. At least I do not have to worry about safekeeping my note and having it lost in mail.

Quote
As an example, a high-risk investment is someone that buys a house and leverages his or her investment by 20 to 1 (5% down/95% Debt), as a 10% drop would be a 200% loss. A bank note cannot go to zero, only face value. Calling it high risk and speculative is a little exaggerated. People’s emotions are what truly make things risky.

I am not sure I understand that. People's emotions are what leads them to make certain decision. The fact that I did not buy into Bre-X did not make it any less risky and/or speculative. Its just that I did not suffer a loss similar to the ones that did.

Besides if a person was ONLY (for emphasis) buying the home for selling it in short term it would certainly qualify in a manner that was described. If they were buying it to live in and they were able to carry their mortgage it would not matter at all. Exactly as the collector who collects for fun.


Quote
Are you implying that ones that make money aren’t able to enjoy their collections? Perhaps they can enjoy it so much more since they get much more bang for their buck  ;)

Not at all. Kudos to anyone who can make money while collecting. Hey heck if I can do what such collectors can do and with the same certainty that I can going into an investment like the S&P 500  index I will do it.

So far the only sure way I have seen to make such money in banknotes is to get hold of bricks and hope to find replacements and special numbers at face value and to sell them slowly into the market.

If there is a way to make money by buying from a dealer or from a secondary market I would like to learn that. If there is anyone out there who can teach me how to do it I will eagerly pay to learn - a  fee commensurate with the epxected return beyond what the S&P 500 index has netted me over the long term.  :)

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
friedsquid
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2013, 11:00:24 pm »

Quote
So far the only sure way I have seen to make such money in banknotes is to get hold of bricks and hope to find replacements and special numbers at face value and to sell them slowly into the market.

Obviously you have no concept of bricking and the reality of it.
Maybe you should read the large number of posts on bricking and topics such as do brickers make a profit.
Bricks cost money, returning bricks cost money, using a credit line if you don't have cash on hand cost money, gas getting bricks cost money,,,,let alone your time.
Most brickers can go months or longer and not find a single sellable note or find what others have already found and not be able to sell what they found...
As for special numbers...I have bricked since the mid 80's and never found a solid yet :)...and you dont make money by selling radars or repeaters ....
Ask any seasoned bricker and ask how many special numbers they have found like solids/ladders/low numbers etc and likely very few if any....
If you think bricking is a way to make money ...be my guest and let me know how much you profited over a year...if your in the black I would be shocked...



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
Rupiah
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 11:19:02 pm »

Obviously you have no concept of bricking and the reality of it.
----
If you think bricking is a way to make money ...be my guest and let me know how much you profited over a year...if your in the black I would be shocked...

Oops  :-[ I must apologize if I offended any brickers with that statement. Not intentional.

You are right I have no concept of bricking and the reality of it.

So would you be able to share why people go through bricks? If not for money then what?

Are you able to share your reasons for bricking even if there is no money to be made in it.? :(



Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
CA_Banknotes
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2013, 09:04:32 am »


Are you able to share your reasons for bricking even if there is no money to be made in it.? :(


As a hobby?

Maybe every now and then you get a big find or score, but for all the time you put into it, there's plenty of better ways to make money than bricking. Shuffling tens of thousands of dollars all the time isn't what the banks like to do, and even if you've done it before, there's no guarantee how long it will go on before you get cut off.
walktothewater
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2013, 09:39:25 am »

I know quite a few "brickers" & not one of them drives an expensive Lamborghini  :-D   (& it does happen to be a LOT of work for minimum/no return the odd times I've done it)

But back to the thread's topic:  a $1000 note (especially 1954) even with an uncommon signature is a "lot of dough" to hold onto & costs quite a bit to sell (due to its high denomination value as mmars fist pointed out).   

IMO: If you really wish to diversify your collection - it is a good note to part with.

Shylo
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2013, 09:55:03 am »

Back to the main thread good!!!...

I have to agree with the above statement... I would rather buy one or two really interesting older notes, or rare specimens than have just one $1000 note...

Perhaps a thread should be made on bricking if anyone would like to give their input... I certainly would like to try it .... just for the experience alone...
stashthecash
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2013, 11:38:58 am »

Oops  :-[ I must apologize if I offended any brickers with that statement. Not intentional.

You are right I have no concept of bricking and the reality of it.

So would you be able to share why people go through bricks? If not for money then what?

Are you able to share your reasons for bricking even if there is no money to be made in it.? :(



I think this thread is not really the place to discuss bricking since the subject has nothing to do with bricking whatsoever...
You would be better to start a new subject (thread)
stashthecash
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2013, 11:41:18 am »

I know quite a few "brickers" & not one of them drives an expensive Lamborghini  :-D   

And I thought all brickers were like me and had Hummers...lots of room to carry bricks and who cares about the cost of gas ...we gotta spend our profits somewhere ;D
Weeles
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2013, 06:40:45 pm »

  Okay,lets see if I am understanding this thread to some degree.

 I understand that most collectors don't want too much money invested in a single note($1000), does that apply to any single note (like a 1935 UNC FRENCH $25) or only because the market is slower moving on the $1000 dollar bills. To me if I can afford to have enough money for a rare note and have that sitting around for a while isn't bad.  8)

 I don't know if everyone would want this started in a different thread but as collectors, you don't want to collect $1000 dollar bills what would be the best bill and most amount of money for 1 bill you would pay?

 Me personally I would love to get a note from 1935 (higher denom) but don't really want to spend more than $3000.  :'(

Been collecting few bills for about 15 years but now getting into more serious collecting.

Shylo
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« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2013, 09:48:56 pm »

Wheels... You make a very good point....

Let me put my spin on it....

Would I spend a 1000 on some other note such as an UNC french $25 from '35...  (given that book price is like 20K yeah sure... LOL) but being a bit more serious...

For me it comes to desirability and personal choice... I don't personally desire owning a 1000 note... I find that they are not commonly used in circulation (so most should be in good condition)....

So even if I was offered a birds series 1000 or a bundle of journey 10's I would be more inclined to take the bundle..
mmars
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« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2013, 10:34:09 pm »

There are several points that this thread raises, as I see it.

First of all, true collectors don't like being told:
-what they should collect;
-why they should collect it.

For investors, there is always plenty of free advice, and free advice is usually worth what you pay for it.  That might sound cynical or facetious, but some advice leads to profits, some advice leads to losses, and some advice has no net benefit, so overall, free advice followed blindly has no real value.  You've probably heard the cliche that opinions are like noses because everybody has one.  An opinion I've heard countless times recently is to invest in silver.  I'm pretty sure those people who say it's going up to $100 per ounce are right, but the real question is will it go that high next week, next month, next year, 10 years from now, or MORE than 10 years from now?  When you hear people say you should buy silver, what they really mean is that you should buy THEIR silver.  The people who say silver is going up to $100/oz seem remarkably uninterested in buying my silver at $40/oz today. 

Many people call themselves true collectors, but my feeling is that many people are part collector, part investor/speculator.  A lot of people calling themselves collectors actually genuinely care about the future value of whatever they want to buy.  A true collector is not going to buy something today and then whine a few years down the road when their collectibles have not gone up in value.  Instead, they are going to tell people for years the exciting stories of how they got their stuff.

All transactions have risks.  I know that's hard to believe if you've engaged in 100 transactions and all 100 of them went well.  But even meeting people face-to-face has risks.  I would be nervous about taking a $1000 bill with me to meet some guy who will invariably want to inspect the note before giving me the $1050 asking price for it.  Meeting in a public place is not inherently safe.  The guy could take the note in his hands and then run away.  A $50 profit just became a $1000 loss.  The high face value of the $1000 note is just one reason these notes lack appeal to collectors.  Another reason is it attracts attention from a lot of nefarious characters.  Your attempt to trade a $1000 note could net you a lobster dinner or a trip to the ICU (intensive care unit).

If you have one thousand dollars that you really don't care if it earns you profit income, you could leave it in the bank or use it to buy a $1000 note.  You don't even have to be a true collector to want one of these notes right now.  It all depends what you want your money to do for you.  Money in the bank and money in your hand both do the same thing: they just sit there, not growing.  At least if you had rabbits, then you would have more and more and more over time.  :D

    No hay banda  
Shylo
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« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2013, 11:28:46 pm »

I agree with all points.....

Take the 1000... buy some rabbits... and eventually you will have thousands of rabbits to sell and make millions!!!
Weeles
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« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2013, 04:52:52 pm »

Would I spend a 1000 on some other note such as an UNC french $25 from '35...  (given that book price is like 20K yeah sure... LOL) but being a bit more serious...

So even if I was offered a birds series 1000 or a bundle of journey 10's I would be more inclined to take the bundle..

Okay Shylo , I sort of get what you are saying with the statement about the bundle but if you had a choice of a single $1000 note or any other single note worth the same value at the time would it make a difference then which one you would take?   ::)


mmars ..

All transactions have risks.  I know that's hard to believe if you've engaged in 100 transactions and all 100 of them went well.  But even meeting people face-to-face has risks.  I would be nervous about taking a $1000 bill with me to meet some guy who will invariably want to inspect the note before giving me the $1050 asking price for it.  Meeting in a public place is not inherently safe.  The guy could take the note in his hands and then run away.  A $50 profit just became a $1000 loss.  The high face value of the $1000 note is just one reason these notes lack appeal to collectors.  Another reason is it attracts attention from a lot of nefarious characters.  Your attempt to trade a $1000 note could net you a lobster dinner or a trip to the ICU (intensive care unit).

As using the same sort of info I wrote to Shylo, I don't think the risk of having a $1000 dollar bill would be any different of a risk of any note worth the same value. Although you did make some good points and from what I would guess and I am understanding it is definitely what someone would be collecting for there own choice whether it be for profit   ;D  or just to collect.

Wayne.

Been collecting few bills for about 15 years but now getting into more serious collecting.

Shylo
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« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2013, 10:03:21 pm »

Wheels....

In my opinion.... I would probably go for a note that has a value of $1000 rather than a $1000 note..... Like an UNC devils face $50...(may need to get a deal on that a bit but all the same..)

But that is all personal preference and what each person finds desirable....

example.... I've always really like the multi-coloured notes.... and have been collecting them all my life...only recently with Dean's posts was I turned on to the fun I can have with pennies... now i love it... and learning a whole lot about coins in general.... I've started looking at other coins and may get into that a bit too...

But right now.. I'm really just craving some rabbit soup!! :D
 

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