CPM Forum

General => What's It Worth? => Topic started by: Archey80 on August 31, 2021, 10:16:00 pm

Title: BSW
Post by: Archey80 on August 31, 2021, 10:16:00 pm
Just wondering what a 2012 BSW Macklem & Carney in VF would be worth?
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: slackjack on September 01, 2021, 09:16:53 pm
2012 BSW Macklem & Carney in VF = $50.00, EF = $75.00
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: walktothewater on September 02, 2021, 10:47:16 am
- thanks 'slackjack'

Quote
2012 BSW Macklem & Carney in VF = $50.00, EF = $75.00

So it's gone up $10 in 2 years even though nobody can find them? I have searched tens of thousands of circulated Frontier Twenties from banks all over the GTA. It took me 4 years to find ONE very beat up example. Only small ranges have been reported from the 240,000 which we have threads about here on CPMF. I'm fairly certain that no collector I know would have given me their BSW for $30-$40 & I would love to buy a VF one now for $50! Please PM me "Archey80" if you're interested.  8)

The BSW $20 is so much scarcer then the Charlton pricing panel will acknowledge. They've always acknowledged that the BSW was 'short.'  But they haven't yet acknowledged that it is SCARCE (LIKE THE $10 Macklem-Carney FTH!)  :'( (which makes even less sense)
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: regent on September 02, 2021, 12:43:11 pm
I am on the pricing panel, two things to keep in mind, first we have to wait long enough to make sure that we do not have another 5 HBG problem. And second we need transactions to fix a price and to my knowledge I did not see any
public transaction on a BSW.
Regent
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: walktothewater on September 03, 2021, 08:47:10 am
I am on the pricing panel, two things to keep in mind, first we have to wait long enough to make sure that we do not have another 5 HBG problem. And second we need transactions to fix a price and to my knowledge I did not see any
public transaction on a BSW.
Regent

- thanks for the reply 'regent.'
Title: Objet : BSW
Post by: lachapelle1986 on February 27, 2024, 05:42:20 am
what is the problem with hbg?
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: regent on February 27, 2024, 07:31:51 pm
 The HBG Macklem Carney was issued in May 2014. In August 2014 a few notes went into circulation and for many months we did not found any HBG notes. the price went  to the roof, the price was up to 500$ a piece.
everybody  tought that it was a short run. the price was  high for many months . 6 months later  the price went down to 15$ ,after finding a lot of bundles in the back of some bank of canada storage facilities
Regent
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: Archey80 on September 07, 2024, 09:24:24 am
I recently purchased a BSW and am awaiting delivery, curious to thoughts on value 3 years later with only 19 on the registry.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: regent on September 07, 2024, 02:07:50 pm
Hi,I think for this note a 100$ bill will be ok. the real value will be probably around $500 for a gem note.

I am not sure there is a gem note on the market
Regent
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: rocken on September 07, 2024, 03:19:57 pm
I would gladly pay your estimated prices for BSW notes :D
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: regent on September 07, 2024, 08:33:29 pm
the problem, we do not have any public transactions or any auction transactions than it is very difficult to have a fair market value. just for information I paid 100$ for my VF note.
regent
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: Archey80 on September 07, 2024, 09:07:45 pm
Thanks for the info! It would be interesting to see one sell at auction.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: 40 daze on April 24, 2025, 08:27:29 pm
Thanks for the info! It would be interesting to see one sell at auction.

Hello Archey80,
You have got your wish! I have listed my BSW 0190139 with Geoffrey Bell Auctions, to finish on April 29. It is BCS certified VF-35 original. I am not aware of any ever coming to auction before and this should answer some of the many questions from over the years.

The listing can be seen at   https://auctions.gbellauctions.com/Bank-of-Canada-20-2012-Scarce-BSW-Prefix_i56334402 
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: walktothewater on April 25, 2025, 10:37:33 am
That's a really nice example of the BSW prefix.  Mine was in pretty beat up (rough shape) & it took me years to find it.  It will be interesting to see how that original VF35 example ends (what the final hammer price will be).
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: 40 daze on April 25, 2025, 07:26:33 pm
That's a really nice example of the BSW prefix.  Mine was in pretty beat up (rough shape) & it took me years to find it.  It will be interesting to see how that original VF35 example ends (what the final hammer price will be).

Thanks walktothewater! I had thought it would grade higher than it did but certainly not complaining, I am no expert.
I was hoping that Rupiah would comment on this link since he has postulated that the BSW prefix may be a trial run for media exposure before earlier prefixes were printed or some unusual printing technique was used. An update would be appreciated.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: Archey80 on April 26, 2025, 07:55:45 am
Thanks for sharing, I had not seen this auction but am tracking now. Should go for 400-500 I’d guess. It’s the nicest grade I’ve seen.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: walktothewater on April 26, 2025, 12:59:19 pm
Quote
I was hoping that Rupiah would comment on this link since he has postulated that the BSW prefix may be a trial run for media exposure before earlier prefixes were printed or some unusual printing technique was used. An update would be appreciated.

I haven't seen a post by Rupiah in a long time (years probably).  Hope he's just taking a break.

You can speculate all you want about the BSW but the BoC & their printers have been known to short-change several prefixes over the years:
$20 Journey EGR (there's others like 2011 AUT which seem tough)
$10 BEP, BEL & 2003 BER
$5.00 2001 AOF & 2004 HOH
& for polymer it is (or should be) a well known fact that the EKZ $100, AMK $50, BSW $20 & FTH $10 were all shafted in terms of the numbers released. Actually the M-C FTH came as a real surprise since it was like the 2003 BER since the 2004 BER had a full release & the M-P FTH had a full releases. Also M-C GHD $50 & W-P FVP $20 were also scarce in numbers.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: rxcory on April 26, 2025, 07:23:24 pm
You can speculate all you want about the BSW but the BoC & their printers have been known to short-change several prefixes over the years:
$20 Journey EGR (there's others like 2011 AUT which seem tough)
$10 BEP, BEL & 2003 BER
$5.00 2001 AOF & 2004 HOH
& for polymer it is (or should be) a well known fact that the EKZ $100, AMK $50, BSW $20 & FTH $10 were all shafted in terms of the numbers released. Actually the M-C FTH came as a real surprise since it was like the 2003 BER since the 2004 BER had a full release & the M-P FTH had a full releases. Also M-C GHD $50 & W-P FVP $20 were also scarce in numbers.

It is very helpful to learn this kind of info from someone who has been actively collecting and going through bundles since the Journey notes were new. As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge walktothewater.

I think there was a typo, as EGR is a Birds $2 changeover. I wonder if you meant the $20 Journey ERG, which has about half the population reported in SNDB as most other full-run prefixes.

It's kind of interesting to go through the Charlton and see the values for, say, the 2003 Jenkins/Dodge $10s, and then realizing that the book values don't really correspond to the SNDB population reports – most should be priced higher than they are due to scarcity. I think I remember seeing talk here that Charlton needed to be able to observe more sales history before revising their values for certain prefixes.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: walktothewater on April 27, 2025, 10:00:29 am
Quote
I think there was a typo, as EGR is a Birds $2 changeover. I wonder if you meant the $20 Journey ERG, which has about half the population reported in SNDB as most other full-run prefixes.
-Thanks for the correction @rxcory - yes the ERG $20 (was just replying off-the-top of my head, trying to recall some of the short prefixes reported).

I did not mention the 2011 HAE-HAL Fives only b/c we expected those to be short & the ones I mentioned came up short more in the middle of their run (with the exception of the 2011 AUT $20).  There's probably a few more short prefixes I failed to mention here.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: Archey80 on April 30, 2025, 08:47:09 am
BSW - BCS graded VF35 sold for $525 + 20% + tax $711.90!
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: Dean on April 30, 2025, 12:47:55 pm
BSW - BCS graded VF35 sold for $525 + 20% + tax $711.90!

Wow, that's impressive.  But I hope everybody remembers that the price before fees and taxes should be used as the benchmark.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: TN56 on April 30, 2025, 04:21:36 pm
BSW - BCS graded VF35 sold for $525 + 20% + tax $711.90!

Wow i'm surprised that it sold for that much. Before I remember people said it was worth 70-200 dollars but if it sold for a higher price than I wonder if the price will rise as time goes on.

Speaking of which does anyone in this forum found a BSW prefix? If you did then how did you find it and what was your reaction when you found one.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: canada-banknotes on May 01, 2025, 11:24:36 am
Wow, that's impressive.  But I hope everybody remembers that the price before fees and taxes should be used as the benchmark.

When looking at past public sales for establishing a market value of a banknote you should include at minimum the bidders premium paid by the buyer at auction in this value, as this is an integral part of the final sale price realized.

Most buyers take into account the bidders premium when they decide their maximum bids at auction.  It would be erroneous to use the hammer price only as any benchmark for market value.  Including the sales tax is questionable as many buyers are tax exempt for multiple reasons (i.e. buying for resale, shipping out of country etc.).
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: walktothewater on May 03, 2025, 08:35:18 am
Quote
Most buyers take into account the bidders premium when they decide their maximum bids at auction.  It would be erroneous to use the hammer price only as any benchmark for market value.
+1
-so about $630

-which means that the VF35 BSW $20 went for nearly 8X the Charlton Book value for this note in VF condition ($80)

-Now the big question is whether the Charlton pricing panel will take this auction result & revise (raise) their tables for their next edition.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: Hunter on May 04, 2025, 01:38:10 am
Was this selling price the result of two desperate and stubborn mad men?

Maybe I’m out of touch or just a cheapskate, but for something like this I’d have a very very hard time paying even $150.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: JB-2007 on May 04, 2025, 08:37:53 pm
Was this selling price the result of two desperate and stubborn mad men?

Maybe I’m out of touch or just a cheapskate, but for something like this I’d have a very very hard time paying even $150.
This is my thinking as well for price but at the end of the day its all about how much one would be willing to spend in order to acquire one such piece. Keep in mind as well it is very rare to see a BSW up for sale as there are so few of them around. I think eventually as more appear on the market the charlton guides will eventually reflect on their true value.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: Breanna72 on May 12, 2025, 04:07:18 am
I think eventually as more appear on the market the charlton guides will eventually reflect on their true value.

I have 100% lost faith in the Charlton as a benchmark for note prices, mainly because of the fact that they don't even update new prefixes in issue annually and the fact that the persons on the committee that determine changes to the prices of notes in the guide are mostly dealers that have a financial interest in keeping the note prices low, so they can buy everyone's notes for chump change and claim "but that's the Charlton price!!!" Just a scam all round in my opinion.
Title: Re: BSW
Post by: AJG on May 12, 2025, 06:29:10 am
-Thanks for the correction @rxcory - yes the ERG $20 (was just replying off-the-top of my head, trying to recall some of the short prefixes reported).

I did not mention the 2011 HAE-HAL Fives only b/c we expected those to be short & the ones I mentioned came up short more in the middle of their run (with the exception of the 2011 AUT $20).  There's probably a few more short prefixes I failed to mention here.

I remember the HAK prefix and how less abundant it was for many weeks, but during the final two weeks prior to the release of the Polymer $5s, there was a surge of HAK prefixes starting to circulate, and someone mentioned, along the lines of "it was a pretty scarce prefix until now" ("now" referring to the final two weeks of the Journey series).  It sounds like the reason for the surge of HAK prefixes was likely due to the Bank of Canada aggressively clearing out their inventory of Journey $5s as much as they can before the Polymer $5s were officially launched.