CPM Forum

Special => Insert & Replacement Notes => Topic started by: Weeles on November 30, 2012, 04:28:06 pm

Title: Weird shuffle or insert?
Post by: Weeles on November 30, 2012, 04:28:06 pm

   I have seen some postings here about bricks with possible inserts, or possibly just shuffling in the brick. I just came from the bank with a single brick of journey $5's, got back to my place here and started going through it........

 The first 2 notes were. HTP8133708-709   FBN(18)  BPN(53)

 Then it went to.           HTP8125710-799   FBN(41)   BPN(30)

  Then to                      HTP8125600          FBN(41)   BPN(30)
                                   HTP8125666          FBN(41)   BPN(30)
                                   HTP8125601-606    FBN(41)   BPN(30)

  I don't get bricks very often and haven't come across such a mixed bunch of notes..

 This message is more for info on the bricks for everyone here to try and figure what the CBN is doing.  :o

Thanks Wayne.

Ps ......this was a banded brick
Title: Re: Weird shuffle or insert?
Post by: walktothewater on November 30, 2012, 04:55:31 pm
Do you mean HPT?  If not, does this "HTP" (new prefix) have a different signature?  What year is it printed in? Please elaborate....
Title: Re: Weird shuffle or insert?
Post by: Weeles on November 30, 2012, 07:59:42 pm
Sorry about that, yes they are prefix HPT.

 While I am responding for the error in typing.
    The thing that I am not sure of with the first 2 notes is the FPN and the BPN are so far away from the other HPT prefix and if that would be an indication of a replacement printed note. I am sure a lot of the experienced members here have stuff like that figured out already, that is before there would be a confirmation of inserts from the BOC.

 Thanks walktothewater for bringing the error to my attention.
Title: Re: Weird shuffle or insert?
Post by: walktothewater on December 01, 2012, 08:56:55 pm
It is natural for your first two notes to have different FPN/BPN when they're over 7999 notes apart.  I had a similar situation and it fooled me at first because my first note was HPU3682300 and the next note was  HPU3610299 so I did not notice the sequence jumped 72,001 note apart at first glance. I was looking at the last 3 digits which decreased by one in my first count.  I am not an "insert note" collector so I probably should not be commenting- but from the look of it- I think these are normal variances which occur when notes get distributed to banks.  I would say "weird shuffle" but that is one of the reasons I don't collect "inserts."   
Title: Re: Weird shuffle or insert?
Post by: mmars on December 01, 2012, 11:42:48 pm
The mixing of CBN-printed notes to make bricks of is something we've been seeing for some time.  The mixing reported in this thread is pretty normal, and is not the result of insert notes being added.

As one of the researchers who broke the patterns for note printing and numbering, I have a pretty good feel for what is going on.  First of all, we know that CBN skip-numbers its sheets by 8,000.  That means the interval in serial numbers between chronological notes on a sheet is 8,000.  Secondly, we know that sheets are cut in stacks of 100 at a time.  That's how patterns in "cup marks" are produced in bundles of 100 notes.  What is not 100% clear is how the printers assemble bundles and bricks.  Before sheets are cut, defective sheets are taken out and replaced by insert sheets, though the inserts are usually added to the ends of stacks of sheets.  A hundred sheets are taken and cut into 45 bundles of 100 singles.  These bundles are then put together into bricks of 1,000 notes.  That means you'll get up to 10 different positions from the same 100 sheets used to make bricks.  Now the part that confuses a lot of people is why there's skipping in the serial numbers within bundles of 8,000 or multiples of 8,000.  That could be the result of shuffling before the bundles are assembled, but that would destroy the pattern of cup marks within bundles.  I don't have access to bricks, so I can only go by what people who do get bricks on a regular basis describe to me.

What is clear is that you can't have insert notes from the same ream as the rest of the brick.  A ream is a grouping of sheets that make up one continuously-numbered sequence of notes.  In this case, 45 notes per sheet multiplied by a skip interval of 8,000 equals 360,000 notes in a ream.  Inserts have to come from outside that 360,000-note ream to be inserts, otherwise they're just shuffled notes from the same ream.