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General => General Forum Comments => Topic started by: Hudson A B on March 14, 2005, 11:47:43 pm

Title: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Hudson A B on March 14, 2005, 11:47:43 pm
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Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: BWJM on March 15, 2005, 12:05:30 am
Can you not just link a USD$ account to PayPal and do a direct no-exchange withdrawal to the bank account?

They might not allow USD$ accounts from Canadian banks, but I don't see why they wouldn't allow a CAD$ account from a Canadian bank and a USD$ account from an American bank. This would obviously be the least inconvenient for people straddling the US-Canada border and can easily cross over to visit a branch and withdraw cash as needed.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on March 15, 2005, 01:32:52 am
Brent is on the right track here.

As a former insider with TD Canada Trust and someone who has accomplished what you want to accomplish I may also be able to shed some light on this for you.

You need to set up a USD denominated account at a Bank in the USA. I drove to Calais Maine to do mine. It is all but impossible to do the setup on the phone/fax since 9/11. Identity checks are more involved now. Do not select just any USA bank, choose one that knows of Paypal and understands why you are opening the account. Some are very back woods so not all are equal.

Paypal will accept this form of account and you can then withdraw to the account without conversion fees. Once the money is in your USA account you can then wire it to your CDN account from time to time or you can withdraw it using an Interac card. Another option is to write yourself a cheque, drawn on your USA USD account and also have a USD account set up here in Canada and just deposit the proceeds into that account.

Please let me know if you have any more questions on this topic.

As an aside, if you "receive" at least $3000 a month on average in your paypal account you should apply for their merchant rate, which is 2.5%.

Thanks
Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: rscoins on March 29, 2005, 07:22:08 am
Right now, Paypal is only paid in Canadian dollars to a Canadian account. Paypal converts the US dollar amount at their rate, without options.

If a person has a US account in a Canadian bank, it will not be placed there. If a Canadian has an account in the US bank, he needs a primary address in the US to get deposits from Paypal.

Rick
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on March 29, 2005, 09:12:27 am
Hudson,

To achieve what you want to achieve (as indicated in your initial post) refer to my last post. You wanted a way to get US balances from Paypal without having to exchange it to CDN$. I provided clear instructions on how to get this done and tips on how to create a paypal relationship which is more favorable to you.

The last sentence of the post right above this one by rscoins is not correct. You do not need a US address to get funds from paypal as you requested. All you need is a USD Bank account from a USA based bank. Many, many US based banks will glady give you an account with your CDN address so long as you meet their identity checks. (You will almost be certainly asked to complete a W-8 form as well <minor detail>. Look it up online if you want to know what this is). Nor does paypal require you to have a USA address. What they (Paypal) does require is the name of your USA Bank and the digits on the bottom of your check (ask for counter checks when you set up your account).

Once the funds are in your USA based USD account you can then bring them into Canada via the various methods I outlined for you in my last post.

I will however take advantage of this additional post by saying that I do not recommend withdrawing the USA based USD balance in cash and trying to cross the border with it if it accumulates to an amount greater than $10,000. There are customs & CDN bank money laundering protocols which will be triggered. This applies only to cash.

It is best to simply write yourself a cheque from your newly created USA USD account and deposit it into a CDN Based USD account. Using this method no flags within the banks will be triggered.

I would ever so gently request that anyone who posts a follow up to this please know what you are talking about before you do. We were being asked to educate and as such offering information is assuming the role of an educator.

Thanks.
Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: docstrange on March 30, 2005, 12:06:22 am
rscoins is right I have a US account with the Royal Bank but ebay will not let me use this account for paypal :(
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: BWJM on March 30, 2005, 12:23:15 am
Note: You do not have to have a US Primary Address... but a USD account from a Canadian bank won't work.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Hudson A B on March 30, 2005, 03:23:13 am
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Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on March 30, 2005, 07:19:03 am
Hudson,

Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to correct docstrange as well to ensure that the false statements ended for your benefit and the benefit of those who wanted a "How To Guide" on how to get this done. It is clear that surface deep knowledge is plentiful on this topic.

Of course a US$ account at a Canadian won't work as Brent said. As I have already said at length You need both a US$ account at a US Bank for Paypal and a US$ account at a CDN Bank IF you want to transfer your money into Canada without paypal involvement (strictly bank to bank, this 2nd bank account will have no association with your paypal account and exists merely to receive incoming funds from your USA US$ account) without exchanging currencies IF you want to bring your US currency balance back to Canadian soil.

The w-8 form is precisely what you need to have completed now because you do not have a social security number, no tax return will have to be filed then.  It's a piece of cake and can be completed in a few minutes flat and is available from the bank you have selected in the USA.

I have a deep understanding of this issue having worked with Paypal on many levels since they opened and having worked within both the banking industry and the financial e-commerce sector directly dealing with very complex B2P , P2B and B2B online financial transactions.  I have also maintained contact from time to time with some of the former executives of Paypal, those who were there before it was sold to eBay for approx $1.4B.  In a part time role as eBay's only platinum powerseller dedicated to Canadian Paper Money I also process 5 figure sums back and forth through paypal every single month.  In addition I also stated when I introduced myself on this topic that I had personally accomplished what you wanted to accomplish and was speaking as someone with both expertise and direct experience.  I was hoping that this information would have been more easily received, I was starting to wonder if I needed to beg Peter T. or Roelef B. to come over here to make a celebrity guest appearance. (If you don't know who they are, research Paypal's extraordinary evolution starting with Elon M., who is now sending rockets to Mars at SpaceX).

As for me, class is over, I'm out!

Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: rscoins on March 30, 2005, 11:47:53 am
The solution offered requires an account in a US bank, located in the US, that will transferr US dollars into an account at a Canadian bank. I have a US social security number, and even with all that, it is a long way to the US to open a bank account.

What is being offered is simply not feasible to the average user of Paypal.

Paypal is one of the worst methods of getting money, with charges, rip-off on the exchange rate, and their famous clawback problems.

I truly wish a real bank would get involved in a big way, to offer some competition to eBay's little brother.

Rick
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on March 30, 2005, 12:26:32 pm
Thanks for restating the clearly obvious and previously stated only solution that I presented to Hudsons problem.

The setup is very easy once you are at a USA bank in person or if you find a bank that will in fact set up an account over the phone/fax, they are scarce however these days. The structure to maintain is very easy and I would recommend it not for the average user but rather anyone who is a fairly frequent to frequent seller who wishes to achieve what Hudson wanted to achieve. Or anyone who is fee sensitive and wants to save as Hudson did.

Nearly all to all US based US$ accounts held at US Banks will "transfer" to a CDN acct via a simple instrument called a cheque that you can write to yourself and deposit into a CDN based account anytime you like.

I can assure you that there are some very real banks involved through Paypal "in a big way", including Wells Fargo.

I however agree that there is room for massive improvement & competition in the epayment industry.

If there is anything else you would like to know about this problem and solution please let me know. I would be delighted to explain any part of this in far greater detail than I already have.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: sudzee on March 30, 2005, 02:01:38 pm
More sellers should just open up to e-mail money transfers. Cost is zero and no third party problems interference.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on March 30, 2005, 03:08:30 pm
Agreed,

Partial solution only however; useful for transactions between two parties who maintain CDN bank accounts, not useful for one party who maintains a USA bank account and the other maintains a Canadian based account.

The system also has its transactional dollar volume limitations which are quite frustrating.

Certapay (founders of the technology) who underpins the CDN email money transfer system still does not support USA transfers the last time I checked. But the next time I speak to Zack F. who founded Certapay I will check on this. He moved on to a Director Level Position at Visa; the last time I conferenced with him was in early '04 however. I have been taking some time off since leaving the industry and haven't stayed in touch as frequently as I did from 2000 - early 2004.

He will have some insight on where the system is trending for growth and when it will support USA transactions.

Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: rscoins on March 30, 2005, 06:24:33 pm
A real bank in Canada is not a foreign bank, but one that is part of our banking system.
Like The Royal, CIBC, BofM etc.

Wells Fargo is a foreign bank. Paypal operates as if Canada is a third world country, and indeed it actually thinks it is a bank of some sort.

Perhaps a good method for accepting Visa on eBay accounts similar to that employed by Gatewest.

I would love to see the major banks in Canada offer a similar method as Paypal currently does.


Rick
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on March 30, 2005, 06:28:06 pm
Such a system does exist for Canadians but it is not as robust as Paypal.

The closest is the CDN Interac email money transfer system offered by the major banks. It was pioneered by Certapay and has similarities to paypal.

That is what was discussed right above your post.

You could maintain your own merchant account for online payments, there is a lot to discuss on this topic with risk/fraud and reserve account balances imposed by the underwriting merchant bank being among the most important/obvious business drawbacks.

There are pluses but this is a very rich topic that requires a very deep understanding before you can be sure you have made the right decision for your online business.

I am personally not into Paypal bashing, they have done amazing things to accelerate the growth of worldwide online commerce which I have personally benefited from greatly. They are far from perfect, and have done very questionable things, and it is sometimes difficult for non insiders to understand why but I would rather have them than not have them, that is for certain.

Also when you said you wished a real bank would get involved in the Paypal market-space you did not specify you meant a Canadian Bank (as you now say), that is why I informed you that Wells Fargo is the underwriting merchant bank for Paypal and they support them enormously. With a Market Capitalizaton of just over 100 Billion US (approx 3x larger than the Royal Bank of Canada, and approx 5x larger than The Bank of Montreal) they certainly qualify as a "real bank".

I will also share with you that an extremely well funded Citibank subsiduary tried to enter Paypal's market space and was smashed to pieces by Paypal's market dominance. http://www.c2it.com/  

The only 3 substantial threats to paypals amazing rise have been 1) Would eBay refuse Paypal payments on their platform and build one of their own by building on BillPoint/eBay Payments or buy Paypal? (the answer to that is of course they bought them); critical question given that historically well over 50% of Paypal revenue has been generated by transactions that originated on eBay.  2) Regulatory bodies (includes governments & credit card companies  3) controlling fraud/chargebacks and being able to turn out a net profit at the end of the day in light of these metrics. They discovered maintaining a fraud rate under 0.40% was essential to profitable operations. This was achieved through investment of hundreds of millions of dollars in the creation and continual evolution of IGOR, which is paypals proprietary software "eye in the sky" or "big brother" and named after the guy who caused them trouble in the early days.

Thanks for making this a little more interesting now. I was getting bored by repeating myself to ensure it was sinking in and to drive away false information on this important topic. :)

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: cwt902 on April 02, 2005, 09:31:31 pm
Here is the solution.....there is RBC Centura in the USA and RBC Royal Bank here in Canada.  The Centura account is a US account and The Royal Bank is the CDN US dollar account.  You can open a Centura account at the Royal Bank here in Canada and do not have to set foot in a bank in the USA.  When you log into your online banking at RBC Royal Bank you can access you RBC Centura account details as well and transfer your balances between the borders.  If you keep a balance of $700 in your Centura account the 3.95 monthly fee is waived.  
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 02, 2005, 09:54:06 pm
CWT,

Thanks for your post.

Sounds like RBC has a good offering if the account can be set up in Canada is a USA USD acct as opposed to a CDN USD account and Paypal will accept it as I outline below.

Please confirm if you have you succeeded in verifying this is a solution by adding this type of account to your own Paypal account via selecting USA (as opposed to Canada) as the country from the main drop down menu on Paypal under "add a bank account".  May I ask how many digits appear on the bottom of the cheque? Paypal's platform will only accept it as a true USA account if the cheque has the requisite number of digits associated with a proper US account, ie. a 9 digit routing# and a 10 digit account # as opposed to the digits associated with a CDN Bank account: a 5 digit bank transfer#, a 3 digit institution# and a 6 digit account#.

Please confirm all of the above before we conclude this will also work as a solution.  If so I would also recommend this as well as the confirmed to be true solution I provided. If you haven't reported back by Monday mid-day I will assume it was only a hypothesis you presented and I will investigate this RBOC offering and put it through the Paypal test myself and report back to the forum with the findings.

I think it's essential to maintain a very high standard/threshold of verification of claims/facts in this thread given some of the misinformation that has appeared in it thus far.

Thanks
Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 03, 2005, 08:46:04 am
I couldn't resist so I did a little digging myself and will share this link with the forum http://www.rbccentura.com/personal/snowbirds/index.html  The menu on the right side of the page also has some good information.

On the face of it this RBC product offering looks very good indeed. It would appear this is in every way a way to get a USA USD account, however, it needs to be confirmed that this account can in fact be set up here in Canada through a Royal Bank rather than a Royal Bank Centura branch in the USA otherwise it is simply a repeat of the solution I provided.

I would have to say at this point this RBC Centura account may very well in fact be yet another solution for all Canadian Paypal users who do not want to continue to have paypal eat away at the currency exchange rates.

Until I see or hear that Paypal has accepted this account in the add a new USA account part of their platform and see or hear someone actually walking into a local Royal Bank and walking out with a USA US$ account from a Canadian Branch location I will however remain suspicious.

It is very refreshing to finally have a new idea presented rather than spend the time convincing that an existing proven solution works. It also great to see that RBC is coming up with some innovative products & corporate structure. This certainly appears to be more seemless and more of a whole product offering than what Chicago based Harris Bank and its parent The Bank of Montreal have been able to put out.

CWT may have provided a very key addition to this thread and I would encourage you all to do your own research. I can say that if I didn't already have a US$ account in the USA and needed one for the first time I would be investigating the RBC Centura account as a potential key primary solution to Hudson's initial problem (the Topic of this thread) - even as a former employee of TD Canada Trust!

Thanks
Troy

Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: cwt902 on April 03, 2005, 12:10:50 pm
I know several folks who have walked into an RBC in Canada and opened Centura accounts.  They were all existing clients at RBC so it was not too difficult for them.  However I do not know how it works for non existing RBC clients.  I will have to ask around about them setting up on Paypal.  They were older ppl and I doubt they do much on the internet.  In theory it all does sound possible.... I have a cdn USD account which we know does not work....I have considered this option for awhile but not gone through with it as I would not carry the $700 balance to avoid the 3.95.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 03, 2005, 12:17:54 pm
Thank you,

That was helpful and as expected.

I will test the hypothesis or theory as you say and as promised I will report back to the forum.

Confirmation is required that Paypal's platform will accept this as a US account before we can confidently claim it is another solution to the problem Hudson presented. The only way to confirm this is to actually open an account and add it to the Paypal platform.

I will keep my fingers crossed, as on the face of it I like this product offering, a lot.

Thanks for bringing the idea forward so it can now be properly tested.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Seth on April 03, 2005, 08:14:43 pm
Here's another angle to this:

At one time I had a USD account at the Bank of Montreal in Vancouver.  The name and Vancouver address were printed on the cheques.   The cheques were also preprinted with "Payable in US Dollars through Bank of Montreal..." and then listed the address of the BoM's branch in New York.

The cheque encoding numbers didn't at all match the numbers on my regular CDN$ accout from the same branch.  They appeared to be routing numbers for a US bank.  Perfect for PayPal, I thought.

But no, PayPal still would not accept it.    >:(
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 03, 2005, 08:41:10 pm
Right.

Thanks for the information which further underscores the reason not to jump to premature conclusions.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 04, 2005, 04:19:08 pm
Appointment set up for tomorrow at 10am AST at RBC.

I will advise how it goes. If the bank is confident the account will work I will then set one up and initiate a complete end to end Paypal test and report back as promised.

This exercise is being completed for the benefit of those who seek an alternate solution to the verified to be true one I presented and to test what was originally presented as "The Solution" by CWT which was subsequently discovered only to be a hypothesis in need of serious testing.

Thanks
Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 05, 2005, 01:15:34 pm
Status report:

Opened a Centura Account this morning, the product offering was called RBC Access USA Service (Centura).
$3.95 monthly fee, waived if you maintain a $700 monthly balance. They also have a premier version of this account which carries a $25 a month fee, waived if you keep $2500 a month on deposit.

The set up went reasonably well but I walked away empty handed. They do the application at the local RBC branch but then they have to fax it offsite to Centura reps in the USA.  Your "package" then arrives in the mail sometime later, included is your new account info and cheques. You cannot get an account # or counter cheques when you go into a local RBC and open the account, all you do is paperwork initially. I guess that is to be expected somewhat given that Centura is a subsiduary of RBC.

The product offering itself appears to be as good as I hoped at this point and when my package arrives I will attempt to initiate the Paypal setup and test withdrawing and depositing to and from the account.

Based on the setup process I would give the advantage to my USA bank in Calais Maine so far.  No fee account & I was in and out of my Bank in the USA in 15 minutes or less (W8 form included) and had my account open with cheques in hand and had deposited money onsite, instantly, and all subsequent electronic paypal deposits/withdrawals have worked flawlessly.

I suspect the RBC product offering will be stronger however the rest of the way, we shall see. No conclusions can be drawn yet.

Thanks
Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Hudson A B on April 05, 2005, 01:54:02 pm
...
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 05, 2005, 02:42:35 pm
My pleasure,

I serve at the pleasure of the forum on this task.

Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: BWJM on April 05, 2005, 04:40:27 pm
You're too humble, Troy. :D Take credit where credit is given!
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: cwt902 on April 05, 2005, 11:16:38 pm
Cheers to the guinea pig!!!  Ihope it does get accepted on paypal...i eagerly await the result...
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 15, 2005, 06:24:04 pm
Some 10 days later I am still waiting for my RBC Centura "package" to arrive in the mail.

Could have driven to Calais Maine and back 10 times easily by now to open a 2nd account if I wanted to. Or I could have driven to pick Hudson up and then drove him to a USA bank to open his account, then driven him home, and then have his Paypal funds withdrawn and in his new USA based US$ account and have written a cheque to himself and transferred them into his Canadian based US$ account if he wanted to.

So far I know (with 100% certainty) a USA based bank in Maine that can offer a solution to the problem presented in this thread in 15 minutes or less (onsite). The alternative RBC Centura solution I am testing for the forum is, including this weekend coming, at least 13 days to setup.

I will report back once I receive my package and will fulfill the before mentioned promises to see this through, end to end.

The truth is out there and I will deliver it to you and continue to work towards driving away any false information in this thread.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Hudson A B on April 16, 2005, 05:41:51 pm
...
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 16, 2005, 05:48:26 pm
I own a capable set of wheels so I was confident no matter where you were I could have pulled it off. Anything, if necessary, to prove a point :)

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 21, 2005, 10:43:03 am
Update:

After 16 days of waiting for my RBC package (all I had received was an interac card...actually called an "InterLink" card in the USA) I was tired of waiting so I picked up the phone and called the number on the back of the card this morning.

Now the good news! Apparently my account was setup and active but I just haven't received anything yet to advise me of this. I then enrolled over the phone for web based banking and to my delight when I entered my new password and username over the web my active account was right there!

I then took the 9 digit routing# and 10 digit account # found on the RBC Centura website to Paypal's doorstep immediately, and guess what!? They answered and said come on in!! (select USA not Canada from the main drop down menu on paypal when adding the account).

1st financial testing is underway now sending money to and from the account. I will report back as soon as I confirm you can withdraw from paypal to the RBC account.

I may even close my account in USA (Maine) and use this solution exclusively because it has superior online access to track transactions and funds can be withdrawn at any local RBC branch!

This new RBC Centura product offering could be a "breakthrough" for all Canadian users of Paypal. (no brainer for sellers as it will save you a fortune in currency conversion surcharges imposed by Paypal and useful for buyers too who want a US$ e-check payment option when paying online sellers through paypal for purchases they made).

Troy E. MacDonald
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: docstrange on April 21, 2005, 01:38:01 pm
Thanks for the update.Since I sell on ebay and am a Royal bank customer this might be the way to go  :D
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 21, 2005, 01:41:10 pm
You are most welcome, it is my pleasure to assist the forum in this matter.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 25, 2005, 12:10:53 pm
Final Report:

I can now confirm that the best solution to Hudson's problem stated at the beginning of this thread is to open a RBC Centura US$ account at his local Royal Bank branch. The alternative is to open a US$ account with a bank on USA soil as I had originally done prior to the RBC Centura product being available.

The RBC Centura account IS accepted by Paypal and it is in every way a true USA US$ account that can be managed through your local Royal Bank.

This will allow you to withdraw your paypal funds into your new RBC account without being hit with the currency conversion surcharges paypal imposes.

The online access provided by RBC Centura is 2nd to none and in fact you can even import other bank accounts from other banks into your RBC Centura web based environment for ease of viewing all your banking relationships at a glance.

The RBC account I can confirm after personally setting up and testing it is working within the Paypal environment, mind you it took 3 weeks to setup (end-to-end).

Was it worth it? Without any question, definitely yes. I can now recommend this for all Canadian Paypal users after having put it through the test on our collective behalf.

CWT, your hypothesis was correct, it worked.

Conclusion: If you reside in Canada and use Paypal you can almost certainly benefit from opening a RBC Centura US$ bank account.

Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Hudson A B on April 25, 2005, 01:14:13 pm
...
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 25, 2005, 01:20:09 pm
My pleasure Hudson.

Let me know if you face any additional e-commerce related problems and I will see what I can do to help.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: BWJM on April 25, 2005, 02:04:35 pm
TD Canada Trust used to have a similar (at least it sounds like it is similar) sort of account through their subsidiary, TD Waterhouse Bank.  However, they seem to have recently disallowed Canadians from obtaining such accounts.  No word on why.

I have not looked at any other banks.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 25, 2005, 02:10:57 pm
As an ex-employee with TD Canada Trust I don't recall the relationship you described as being in the same spirit as what RBC has accomplished with Centura. The TD offering I believe was more in the spirit of the structure/relationship between BMO and its USA subsiduary Harris Bank.

The RBC Centura offering is a remarkably seamless (after it has been set up) branch and web based product offering that provides industry leading benefits and ease of use.

Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: BWJM on April 26, 2005, 10:29:02 pm
Troy, a member of the forum has requested that this subject be saved for future reference.  Would you be so kind as to make a concise summary of the subject so that it can be posted in a sticky thread in the eBay forum?

Also, it was suggested that this subject might be of interest to the greater collecting community as well.  Might you consider submitting a summary article to the CPMS for the next newsletter?
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 26, 2005, 11:41:29 pm
Brent as flattered as I am I should probably disclose that I have currently just begun a project which will include all of the information presented here and volumes more. Having said that I have no problem with the information being saved for reference or if you want to cut and paste certain portions of it I completely trust your editing given the work I have seen you perform on this forum.

It is my intention to write the most advanced published book ever written on both the Art and Science of selling on eBay and exploiting the ecosystem of sites that support it, one of which is Paypal.

This text will be aimed at those with intermediate to expert level knowledge of eBay already but wish to aspire to GrandMaster and Super GrandMaster Level. It is also being created as an educational tool for eBay upper and middle management themselves so they may deepen their understanding of the power of their own platform when used to its highest and best use and where it still lacks.

It will cover a lot of ground including the Art and Science of "Buying" for resale on eBay and well as extensive analysis on optimum sales performance and market dominance.

I suppose after living and breathing eBay's key operational and sales platform metrics for 5 years and having jumped back into the trenches 6 months ago and went "platinum+" in the same period of time it's high time I wrote it all down in a way that has never been done before.

I greatly appreciate the opportunity and had I not just started this other project I would be delighted to be at the service of the CPMS.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: BWJM on April 27, 2005, 12:50:46 am
That's too bad you are occupied with the larger tome that you are writing.  I would have thought it would be a good way to introduce yourself to the CPMS community by submitting a small summary of this Royal Bank arrangement.  However, I'm sure you need no introductions. :D

I will try to summarize what I see in this thread, but I doubt I will have the command of topic that you obviously do.

BTW: I was only suggesting a SHORT summary of the work that you have done on this subject, not a long procedural essay or anything.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 27, 2005, 01:21:16 am
Hi Brent,

I think the How To guide on this topic is all here in this thread and with some copy and pasting to eliminate duplicate info it would come together nicely. I tried not to short change the thread too much.

If you believe the community would benefit from the additional commentary I provided about Paypal's history that could also be included.

I am also willing to have a look once its compiled to see if there are any missing links.

I recognize that I would benefit from the introduction to the CPMS via the article but I must maintain the intense focus I have right now on the tasks at hand even though I deeply regret the sacrificial consequences.

Thanks very much
Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on April 27, 2005, 02:28:32 pm
Final paperwork, account info & checks/cheques arrive in the mail from RBC Centura on the 22nd calendar day after my 1st visit to the local RBC branch.

Everything is in order.

That's all folks.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: admin on June 08, 2005, 10:09:46 pm
I moved this here from the "eBay" section after I closed it. I felt that this discussion was of considerable value and should be retained.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Marc-Andre Roy on June 09, 2005, 04:29:21 am
N/A.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on June 09, 2005, 09:33:35 am
Greetings,

I have just written you an email to investigate your comments as they relate to what we know to be Paypals obvious limitations after a wide range of experiences and testing and I will gladly present any new findings to the forum.

I anxiously look forward to your response as you certainly have this skeptic very intrigued. I must say a most modern method of business development for RBC ;D

Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on June 09, 2005, 02:52:43 pm
I have had some communication by email and by telephone with M.A. Roy of RBC and I found the communications quite informative.

I will post a summary shortly.

Thanks.
Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on June 13, 2005, 02:12:23 pm
This post is a report on my conversation and subsequent investigation of the comments made by M.A Roy of RBC.

1st let me say that both M.A. Roy and I agree that the RBC Centura product offering I previously investigated on the forums behalf is the primary solution and preferred over the next idea which I am going to present which was presented to me by M.A. Roy.

Having said that I wanted to provide you a follow up report on the RBC Centura offering that I have been using for several weeks now. The account is working very well, adding funds to my paypal account and withdrawing from Paypal to my RBC Centura account has worked flawlessly. The undetected (undisclosed by RBC during the sales cycle) drawback (an important one at that) is that you cannot just walk into any RBC branch here in Canada and withdraw from your RBC Centura Account. You will need to write a cheque off your account or wire your funds to their intended end destination. They do provide “in branch” set up of the account initially as I witnessed but all further transactions are done either online or over the phone with RBC Centura Reps in the USA.  I have simply written cheques on my account to work around this lack of local in branch service.  I will also remind you that their online banking offering is very competitive and is complimentary with the account. I have also found their telephone banking to be quite competitive as well.

Now having said that let me present a simple alternative that allegedly (by M.A. Roy) is suitable for those who seek only to withdraw their US$ balances from Paypal into a Canadian based US$ account, yup that is correct. You will cry “wait the Paypal software will not accept a Canada based US$ account"..well with RBC’s help I have learned a secret work around.

It goes like this:

First go into your Paypal account and then click on “Profile”, next then click on “Bank Accounts” under the financial information section. Now on this “Bank Account” screen on your bottom right is an “add” button, click it.  Now on this “add a bank account” screen select USA as the country. On the next screen where it asks you to add a bank account in the USA enter:

Routing Number: 026004093
Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXXX (5 digits transit) + (7 digits account number) – You must already have a traditional US$ Canadian based RBC account for this to work.

Now you will note from the paypal screen check sample they assume your account number is 10 digits, however the software will accept account numbers of varying length.

Apparently RBC and JP Morgan in the USA have a relationship in place via the routing number presented above. This routing number allows the transaction to stay in US$ all the way to your Canadian Based US$ account.

Now here is the deal, I am told by M.A. Roy that you can withdraw your paypal balance to your RBC account this way but you cannot do the reverse, you cannot add funds to your paypal account under this arrangement. (The Centura offering you can). In fact you shouldn’t even attempt it I am told or Paypal may just close your Paypal account down.

When I interviewed M.A. Roy he informed me that he has personally tested the facts presented to be true, I have not personally tested the information presented.

I will not be pursuing this alternative presented by M.A. Roy because I am happy with the Centura offering and most importantly I am fearful that Paypal will all of a sudden decide they don’t like this work around and shut down every account using it.  I would therefore gently caution professional bankers who post recommendations in the forum to clarify if RBC is advising us or if it is simple person to person counseling. I would be out for blood (and so would you be) if an official representing a bank presented a potentially dubious idea that caused my Paypal account to be closed. That would come at great opportunity cost and financial loss for me.

I have researched Paypal’s policies and I do not see where they say this arrangement is against their policies but they do say that withdrawing your US$ balances to a Canadian based account isn’t possible, well according to M.A Roy it is, but I won’t be the beta tester for this one as I sense the possibility of potential trouble down the road with it.

That’s all folks and thanks for listening in, I found M.A Roy's idea to be quite interesting and would like to thank him for bringing it forward.

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Marc-Andre Roy on June 13, 2005, 09:52:13 pm
.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on June 13, 2005, 09:56:58 pm
Thank you for the correction, I have adjusted your remarks accordingly transcribed from our conversation.

Troy.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: coinsplus on June 23, 2005, 01:16:35 am
I would like to mention that I have tried the linking of my "basic" RBC US Dollar Bank Account (not RBC Centura) with the routing number specified, along with the transit number and account number.

To my delight, the link between PayPal and to my RBC US Dollar Bank Account was successful.  PayPal deposited two small deposits ( a total of 46 cents U.S. ).   I then verified the two deposits on the PayPal's bank confirmation, and voila!  It works!!!

I then did a withdrawal of $5 U.S. from my PayPal account to my RBC U.S. Dollar Bank Account and it showed up in about 2-3 business days.  I then did the opposite, and it was also successful.  

Going forward, I am very happy to know that I can cash out my US Dollars rather than be charged the bad foreign exchange rates that PayPal offers.  

Thanks to the other members for providing the helpful information.   ;D
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on June 23, 2005, 01:58:35 am
Thanks for testing the scenario I would not and providng the feedback.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you in case Paypal decides they dont like the work around one day and shuts down the accounts using it.

I am playing it safe and staying with my RBC US$ USA Based Centura account which allows me to not only withdraw to it from my Paypal account but I can also add funds to my paypal account from my RBC Centura account and initiate e-checks without the risk of account closure :)

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: CA_Banknotes on June 23, 2005, 02:17:33 am
Dang it.

I made more than $3000 US in sales this past month, and withdrew it with my Paypal ATM card. Now I find out about this  >:(

I lost twice. I had to convert the Australian Dollars (I sold on ebay.com.au) into US Dollars, got a really crappy rate, and when I made the ATM withdrawals, got a crappy rate too.

To add insult to injury, they already charge the ridiculously high fees. I sold a Australian $100 Test Note for $1000 AUD (About $950). All I ended up with was about $840 CAD.

I need to go to RBC to open a account. Thanks again coinsplus for your helpful advice.  :)

Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: coinsplus on June 23, 2005, 02:55:57 am
Don't thank me - all I did was just try it out and it worked.  

You should be thanking MonetaryMan and M.-A. Roy for their hardwork and helpful information on this issue.   ;D
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: CA_Banknotes on June 23, 2005, 02:57:07 am
Quote
Don't thank me - all I did was just try it out and it worked.  

You should be thanking MonetaryMan and M.-A. Roy for their hardwork and helpful information on this issue.   ;D

Don't be so modest.

TheMonetaryMan and Roy deserve a lot of credit.

You were our labratory rat for trying this out!  ;D
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: CA_Banknotes on June 23, 2005, 02:59:40 am
Research can never be done without labratory rats, btw.  ;)
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: coinsplus on June 23, 2005, 04:22:11 am
A guinea pig sounds better than a rat.   ;)
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: CA_Banknotes on June 23, 2005, 04:24:35 am
Quote
A guinea pig sounds better than a rat.   ;)

Agreed. Let's make it better, why not a little, cute mouse?  ;D

(Sorry for going OT)
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: Marc-Andre Roy on June 23, 2005, 10:01:59 am
.
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on June 23, 2005, 10:12:03 am
The reality check I was talking about....

Thanks for sharing that M.A Roy.

I guess you were somewhat fortunate that was all they blocked :)

Troy
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: koremore on July 16, 2005, 02:48:01 pm
This is an absolute must-read that compliments this thread nicely:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/archive/thread/134053-1.html

koremore
Title: Re: Paypal (Ebay) - $US Balances- in Canada
Post by: TheMonetaryMan on July 16, 2005, 08:12:17 pm
I believe that thread you are referring to is 1-2 years dated now and the retail banking product landscape has evolved considerably since then.

It appears to have been a fairly decent early discussion on the topic.

Troy