CPM Forum
Special => Error Notes => Topic started by: ikandiggit on September 13, 2009, 01:29:09 pm
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This is my second mismatched $20 in a couple of months. It's the same prefix ELN.
How many are there actually out there if it was a misprinted sheet?
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/nmm1.jpg)
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/nmm2.jpg)
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I strongly doubt that all the notes on the same sheet have mismatched serials. It's a kind on error which occurs on one of the mechanical printer for the numbers, not on all of them (there is 40 pairs to print a sheet).
What I think is that a serie of consecutive notes, with an undetermined lenght, were printed with some of the printing wheels stucked in a different position from its neighbor (these sets of printing wheels are not mechanically linked between them) . It can go on for a long time before the operator see the error and stops the printer and repair the printing device.
Is both notes have serials very near one form each other? Can you post a scanof the other note? It could set a minimal range for the error...
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Nice find!
Can you post FPN/BPN also....
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fpn95 bpn25 for the new one.
Unfortunately, I'll have to get the fpn and bpn for the one that I sold from the purchaser:
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/20dolaa.jpg)
There was also an earlier post from January, 2009:
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=9107.0
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Here are the plate numbers for the following bill. Fpn 46 Bpn 25
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/20dolaa.jpg)
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The left S/N is a sheet replacement, the right S/N is not... :-\
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So it raises the question: What would be its real serial number? Is it belongs to the replacement serie or not?... ??? ??? ???
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In this case case I'd say the S/N on the left is correct, the right seems to be stuck on 6.
Both notes are printed in the same sheet position so.......
ELN9798312 ELN9698312
ELN9799195 ELN9699195
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There's possibility to determine its real serial number: one have just to compare its serials with those which can be calculated from the Standard Matrix, knowing the FPN/BPN and the skip number... The number who matches the Standard Matrix is the real serial number...
One can ask HudsonAB... ;)
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There's possibility to determine its real serial number: one have just to compare its serials with those which can be calculated from the Standard Matrix, knowing the FPN/BPN and the skip number... The number who matches the Standard Matrix is the real serial number...
One can ask HudsonAB... ;)
Thanks copperpete, yes you are right. One of the two will match the standard matrix for CBN. Whichever one that is, would be the real serial number.
I love this mystery game.
Does anyone want to give it a shot? I am just out the door right away, so I will pass for now...
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9799195/9699195 46/25
The right SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25
9798312/9698312 95/25
FPN 95 is too high for CBN PN's
The right side SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25
The right SN wasn't stuck on 6, appears the left SN skipped ahead.
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9799195/9699195 46/25
The right SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25
9798312/9698312 95/25
FPN 95 is too high for CBN PN's
The right side SN fits 45 On skip 8000, pos 42, 46/25
The right SN wasn't stuck on 6, appears the left SN skipped ahead.
Excellent. The point is moot, but it is worth reminding that notes in this serial number range have been known to have a 6000 skip (9.72 or higher), or an 8000 skip (below 9.72).
So, if the tumbler jumped forward, then yes indeed, 8000 skip is right.
Good work everyone!
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Based on this information, using these two bills, what would be the minimum number of misprinted bills?
Also, the bill (ELN 8830800/ELN 8312800) that rjms768 found had three digits mismatched. Is this one unique?
Have there been any others from the ELN series with mismatched numbers reported?
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Hello.
Congratulations ikandiggit on your discovery of mismatched number notes. I am truly envious as I have always wanted to find such an error but have been unsuccessful.
I am not an expert on error notes, but I know about CBN printing practices with the skip interval of 8,000 and the position number layouts. The reply by woodguy62 is accurate. These error notes were printed in position 43 (X-3), 9696000-9703999.
Here is my opinion. Mismatched serial numbers can be created in two ways. The number reels can become loose or stuck during the course of printing a ream. I call this a "spontaneous" mismatch. Alternatively, the left and right sides could have been set incorrectly by the press operator. I call this a "systematic" mismatch. The number of error notes created by the systematic mismatch can be up to and including the total number of sheets printed in the ream, in this case 8,000.
But wait! For these ELN notes, the mismatch was created by having the 6 on the left increased to a 7. The first 4,000 notes printed should be 9696000-9699999, and they will probably all have the mismatch on the left (9796000-9799999). For the next 4,000 notes, it is possible that the correct serial number was printed because the 6 on the right side clicked over to a 7 while the 7 on the left did not change, so 9700000-9739999 was printed on the left and right sides. Also possible, the 7 on the left clicked over to an 8, creating a different mismatch with 9800000-9839999 on the left. My gut tells me that the latter scenario did not happen, otherwise the press operator would have realized the error after the notes were printed, and these notes would never have been released. So we're probably looking at a maximum of 4,000 error notes if the error was systematic. There's no way to know for sure until more of these errors are found.
I hope this helps!
Mark
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Yes, thank you for the explanation!
The other question I have is that there was also another note found - ELN 8830800/ELN 8312800. This one has a 3 digit mismatch with the same prefix. I've come across a number of ELN notes which are correct. (I guess I should have been recording the serial numbers.... I'll start doing that now). Is there a chance that this particular one is unique?
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My guess is that the ELN 8830800/ELN 8312800 mismatch was the result of a spontaneous error, i.e., a mismatch created during the course of a print run. I just can't see the print operator making a mistake like this in setting the numbers manually. So I expect that more of these notes exist and are in circulation.
It would be interesting to know what the position numbers are for this particular error, especially given that it's the same prefix as the signle-digit mismatches you found.
Mark
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There is also one on ebay with the numbers ELN8197740 / ELN8097740.
Item number: 320428087295
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There is also one on ebay with the numbers ELN8197740 / ELN8097740.
Item number: 320428087295
I contacted the seller and he provided the following:
ELN8197740 / ELN8097740
Fpn 24
Bpn 24
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Interesting, the location of ELN8097740 24/24, is in position 23, ream 23. Not the same position as ELN9698312 and ELN9699195 but in the same column (3) and 4 reams away.
Continuous or intermittent?
ikandiggit, you need to find more mis-matches..... ;D
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I've gotten a response from rjms768 on his bill.
Serial #ELN 8830800/ELN 8312800
Fpn 44
Bpn 34
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That is bizarre - multiple positions with faulty tumblers. Makes me want to go through $20s like no tomorrow. So I will.
Take care all. :-)
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I go through 300-500 $20 bills a day. A few weeks ago there were about 30 or so ELN's in the piles. Lately, I see maybe 4 or 5. I scan through the other bills looking for radars, repeaters, etc. but haven't looked as closely for mismatches.
Guess I'll have to buckle down and look more closely at the other prefixes.
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I go through 300-500 $20 bills a day.
And of course you're adding all these notes to the Serial Number Database (http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/sndb), right? ;D We need all the data we can get, and $20s are a good denomination to do.
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Well I'm the new owner of that ELN 8097740 error note, seller come from Quebec maybe there will be more ELN error around here since I'm in Quebec province too... I also watch all my 20$ hehe (crossing finger)
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I have been "scouting" ELM and ELN notes from circulation to see if I can turn up any more of these errors. You know, for research purposes ;D . Anyhow, I've been dreaming for years about finding any kind of mismatch error from circulation, and the dream is finally reality...
{http://www.give-a-buck.com/special/ell0549.jpg}
Notice how the serial number on the left is faint. That's what drew my attention to in initially. I don't recall seeing an ELL error before. That makes three consecutive prefixes with errors found. This must have been a chronic problem for CBN late in 2007!
Details:
0549983 on left
0549993 on right
position numbers 44/34 (E-4)
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I have been "scouting" ELM and ELN notes from circulation to see if I can turn up any more of these errors. You know, for research purposes ;D . Anyhow, I've been dreaming for years about finding any kind of mismatch error from circulation, and the dream is finally reality...
Excellent find! Good for you!
I have yet to see an ELL prefix in any of the notes I go through.
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Thanks!
I wouldn't be too surprised if mismatched serials turn up in a few more prefixes, notable those leading up to the changeover at ELU. Clearly, Canadian Bank Note is blasting out $20 notes, and if they are experiencing recurring problems with their machinery, those problems could be spread out over many prefixes. With so many new $20s showing up in circulation, it's quite possible that certain regions of Canada will not see certain entire prefixes. On the plus side, the residence time of the average $20 note in circulation is much longer than for $5 and $10 notes, so you'll see the ELL's sooner or later.
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Summary of $20 errors posted on this thread (updated March 3, 2010):
ELN 9798312 / 9698312 46/25 (X-3)
ELN 9799195 / 9699195 46/25 (X-3)
ELL 0549983 / 0549993 44/34 (E-4)
ELN 8825112 / 8307112 44/34 (E-4)
ELN 8826126 / 8308126 44/34 (E-4)
ELN 8830800 / 8312800 44/34 (E-4)
ELN 8831285 / 8313285 44/34 (E-4)
ELN 8197740 / 8097740 24/24 (E-3)
ELP 4596668 / 4496668 24/24 (E-3)
ELP 6396389 / 6296389 24/24 (E-3)
ELP 6398531 / 6298531 24/24 (E-3)
{http://www.give-a-buck.com/special/elp-error.jpg}
In the above note, the serial number on the right is correct, and the mismatched digit on the left rolled ahead by 1. This seems to be a common problem for position E-3.
Clearly, these errors are widespread over several prefixes, and they seem to occur in certain positions, though the errors vary slightly (i.e., it's not always the second numeral on the left side that rolls ahead).
Keep finding and reporting them, folks!
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Another mismatched serial number error on ebay with six numbers mismatched.
Item # 110470728551
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Another mismatched serial number error on ebay with six numbers mismatched.
Item # 110470728551
Wow!
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Another mismatched serial number error on ebay with six numbers mismatched.
Item # 110470728551
Is that the going price for this type of error? ???
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If it was an Unc note, maybe. I can't see a circulated note, even with as many mismatched digits, going over $1k, but I'm certainly not the expert. In fact, I tend to be highly pessimistic with error notes based on previous experiences, so I will not comment further. 8)
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On one of the coin forums I belong to, a member posted a Canadian $20 mismatched serial number note with three digits mismatched. I have asked for the plate numbers and will post them when I receive them.
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/mm20126.jpg)
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That latest note is probably the same error as a previously-reposted error on this thread, ELN 8830800 / ELN 8312800. You know what this means, don't you? There could be as many as 8,000 of these triple-mismatch notes out there! (since these notes were printed skip-8,000)
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{http://www.give-a-buck.com/special/eln-mismatch.jpg}
If you wonder which side has the correct number, here's a clue...
{http://www.give-a-buck.com/special/eln8313.jpg}
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A pretty good day today! A low number and also another mismatched $20:
Fpn 44
Bpn 34
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/mm3da.jpg)
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A pretty good day today! A low number and also another mismatched $20:
Fpn 44
Bpn 34
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/mm3da.jpg)
Wow congrat again :) I wish I could buy these notes from you ! Nice find
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On one of the coin forums I belong to, a member posted a Canadian $20 mismatched serial number note with three digits mismatched. I have asked for the plate numbers and will post them when I receive them.
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/mm20126.jpg)
I finally got a response from the owner of this bill.
FPN 44
BPN 34
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Of course this would a little problem in trying to add both serial numbers in to the SNDB ;D
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Of course this would a little problem in trying to add both serial numbers in to the SNDB ;D
SNDB would accept one of them.............. I'd try the left one..........
What I can't believe is ikandiggit didn't find this one. I thinks he's got some kind of mismatched serial number magnet in his fingers.......... ;D
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The only thing that surprises me is that he admits openly to finding them. It's the right thing to do, of course, but I'm sure many more people have found mismatch notes and are keeping them under wraps.
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I'm surprised that you're surprised! :)
See:
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=11057.0
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Another ELP error reported...
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=11094.0
ELP 4596668 / ELP 4496668 24/24
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After a loooooong spell of finding very little, today I found another mismatched ELN.
fpn- 24
bpn- 24
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/mm201aa.jpg)
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww201/ikandiggit/mm22ab.jpg)
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[edit]Post removed because of blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda - mmars[/edit]
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Awwww, you poor, poor guy. Nobody should have to go that long before hitting the jackpot. :-[
LOL!
It did sound like I was looking for pity, didn't it..... sorry everybody. Next time I'll just post the pictures and leave out the commentary. ;D
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A friend of mine picked this one out of the till yesterday and sent me a scan. I'll get the front and back plate #'s later but I was surprised when he read the #s to me thinking they were two separate notes!
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8288/doubleserial20arb.th.jpg) (http://img152.imageshack.us/i/doubleserial20arb.jpg/)
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That is sweet!
I have yet to come across an ARB prefix.
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Nice find. I should start looking at $20s...
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Very nice find!
It seems to be in the same family as this one:
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=8250.0
Both show a black square, and both have only the middle digit and the last digit which are the same