How many Specimen notes were really printed

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I know a few members here collect Specimen notes.

For example the 1954 devil's series, some denominations the BOC sold many more than other denominations.
My question is: a $100. specimen devils note that is advertised as only 12 sold to the public. That may mean the BOC sold 12 of them but if there were 110 of the $5. version sold, where are the remaining $100. ones.  There must be more cause don't they save some for the museum collections.

Will the BOC decide to sell off the remaining ones in the future thus deflating the huge price tag you might well pay on one today.

Will the BOC decide to sell off the remaining ones in the future thus deflating the huge price tag you might well pay on one today

The last time I spoke to someone at the BOC they had no plans at this time for any future sales..

The last time I spoke to someone at the BOC they had no plans at this time for any future sales..

But there is a possibility of a sale down the road. We just don't know when.

But there is a possibility of a sale down the road. We just don't know when.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion at all.

The entire point of their previous sales was to reduce their inventory to be more aligned with what they need as opposed to the excess that they had at the time. Those notes are now gone and in private hands. There's nothing to suggest that the Bank has huge piles more of these notes. In fact, I would suggest that they have probably very few. Again, just what they need.

Furthermore, just because they have had sales in the past does not imply that they will have sales again in the future. If the Bank was any good at money-making opportunities or anything of that nature, they would be rivaling the Royal Canadian Mint in terms of the number of special numismatic issues produced every year. (Aside: just today the Mint sent out an email blast about yet another collector coin). Clearly, the Bank has little or no interest in the likes of numismatists aside from what they do with the Currency Museum. In addition, anyone who has been paying any attention at all will know that the Bank has been focusing more and more on security and the control of information about banknotes (ranging from rules for use of banknote images to the demise of identifiable replacements to the discontinuation of the CPMS new issues program to the frequent stonewalling approach when asked for information). So a numismatic sale like their previous two would surprise me a fair bit.

When the Bank says they have no plans at this time for any future sales, I wouldn't read into that any further than the very literal meaning. Don't get your hopes up. Save your money and buy something at the next RCNA auction instead.

*** Note: None of the above precludes the sale of numismatic material still held by the various printing companies. ABN Co recently held a sale if I recall correctly where a great deal of Canadian material was dispersed. I wouldn't be surprised if the various printing companies still hold yet more material that they are simply sitting on. It may all in due course come out by auction, but until then, what they have, when it will be released, if it will be released, and how is unknown.

Thanks BWJM for that information.

What I really wanted to say was, if there were 110 notes of the 1954 $5 devil sold to the public, then chances are there were more than 12 1954 $100. denomination available than what was sold to the public. Who is holding the rest and when/if a good deal more will  be made available might deflate the current asking prices for the $100. note.

In regards to the upcoming RCNA auction, that was the reason I am inquiring about this topic. There is one on the list. This is an expensive hobby to partake in, especially when one is after the more rare notes. Better to be inquisitive and more informed before making that purchase.



 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't specimen notes also printed and distributed to international banks as well as examples of what Canadian currency looks like when it walks through the door? If so, how many are still held in other international institutions?

I'm debating whether to invest into collecting Canada specimen notes or just stick to to legal tender variety.

I'm debating whether to invest into collecting Canada specimen notes or just stick to to legal tender variety.

I would suggest you get your hands on some older Charlton Books and start crunching some numbers and see how well “specimen” notes have performed as an investment. For myself I was very curious to know how effective bank notes are as an investment. It took me about a year and what I did was use all past Charlton books and built a pricing model that took in all past and current individual prices for notes, adjusted each notes and year for inflation and calculated returns for basically every replacement note and special serial numbered notes. Although this was a huge amount of work I was able to figure out how great returns were from year to year and overall grouped individually, by denomination series you name it and my conclusion for myself was that Bank notes very rarely offer what I consider to be a sufficient return to warrant  Bank Notes as an investment. Although I consider the overall CAGR (compound annual growth rate) as being too little the other main issue is the obvious obstacle of unloading huge amounts of notes, simply put bank notes aren’t very liquid or liquid enough. Personally I have no interest in “Specimen” notes and I simply stick to “Issued Notes” the only area that I consider “specimens” are in Scripophily, but that’s a whole other ball game. My honest suggestion is keep an eye out for current and past auctions, start keeping track of past sales and grades and then if you haven’t already put down on paper your dream collection, add up the cost and if it fits the budget go at it!

MG

What I really wanted to say was, if there were 110 notes of the 1954 $5 devil sold to the public, then chances are there were more than 12 1954 $100

I am pretty certain that if BOC did have a sale (and there were say 100 to sell) then I doubt very much the price would go down much - this is not like a hoard, or a great deal of notes to "flood the market."  I am totally aligned with BJWM's skepticism towards a future BOC sale.   If specimen notes really are your thing- then you would be wise to start hunting for them at shows/auctions (& go early).  IF BOC were to have another future sale then you would be amongst many very well informed veteran collectors, long standing dealers (who can accurately grade a note at the drop of hat) & agents representing very wealthy closet collectors with super deep pockets who will be bidding against you.

I am also impressed that Mortgage Guy did his "homework" when it came to investing in BOC paper money.  I'm not surprised at his conclusion (that paper money is a cumbersome difficult investment portfolio).  While specimen notes may be easy to sell today (as they seem to be very desirable for many non-collector types) try to remember that there are "hot" trends which do cool down eventually (everything has it's cycles, and collecting is no exception).

It would never have dawned on me to apply his statistical research since I just like collecting for the sake of collecting Canadian paper money.  It was only since online paper money auctions became popular that rekindled my interest in the new Journey series (around 2001) that I realized I could collect doubles or triples in rarer notes to help pay for my "expensive habit."
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't specimen notes also printed and distributed to international banks as well as examples of what Canadian currency looks like when it walks through the door?

That's what I always thought of in terms of Specimen notes.   I believe they were printed to help tellers detect counterfeit currency.

I would be reluctant to collect these not only due to the infrequency we see them but also since I have no interest in notes not meant for circulation.  I think you would be wise to get your hands on a few older Charlton catalogues and make a more informed choice of what to collect since there's such a vast array of notes to collect (as MG suggests).  I can tell you quite honestly that I wish I did this and focussed in on certain areas rather become the generalist that I have became.  But of course- since its a fun hobby (& not an investment for me) - I have no regrets! 

Good luck...

There have been some good, thoughtful replies here.  The following words, taken from the 1999 Bank of Canada sale catalogue, will support some of what has been said.
In the introduction, from the Bank of Canada itself:
"The Bank of Canada is offering in this auction its entire inventory of 1969-79 low serial number notes and specimen notes from the 1935, 1937, 1954, 1967 and 1969-79 bank note series, with two exceptions.  First, the National Currency Collection housed in the Bank of Canada's Currency Museum contains examples of all notes of these series.  Secondly, the Bank will retain a small number of sets for operational purposes related to the verification of mutilated note claims, but attests that these notes will not be made available for sale at any time in the future."

I never looked at currency collecting as an avenue to make a profit.  I've collected sportscards/sports memorabilia my whole life for the sole purpose of making a profit. Done very well in liquidating this inventory to help pay for this current hobby.  Invest/spend - its money out of your pocket, result is the same. When I collect sometime I really like, it's hard to part with it, so the fact that it can increase in value is just icing on the cake.

I have to thank Bob for his post which provided me with the answer I was looking for.  Also for the informative posts of the other members.