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Topic: 1954 $50 Modified B/C with DF C/T serial # A/H0011817  (Read 11567 times)
canada-banknotes
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« on: October 03, 2014, 10:10:08 pm »

Currently offered on eBay (item # 151430215095)

1954 $50 Modified with Beattie-Coyne signatures and Devil's Face Coyne-Towers serial number A/H0011817

Who would a thunk it ?  Coincidentally the note is being offered out of the Russian Federation.  Suspicious or find of a lifetime ?  ???



Arthur Richards
Contributor, Charlton Catalogue of Canadian Government Paper Money, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd and 29th Edition
Pricing Panel Member, Charlton Catalogue of Canadian Government Paper Money, 21st Edition 2009
JB-2007
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2014, 11:18:13 pm »

This note could be a counterfeit. Its much like in another topic the $1,000 DF Beattie-Rasminsky note, anything is possible but not likely. If its too good to be true, it probably is.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 11:23:18 pm by JB-2007 »
Gary_T
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2014, 07:44:12 am »

Seems like there is a $100 note from the same seller that has numbers way too high for the signatures.

I don`t have my book but looks like it to me.

Item number 151430211431

Gary_T
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2014, 10:42:31 am »

Seems like there is a $100 note from the same seller that has numbers way too high for the signatures.

I don`t have my book but looks like it to me.

Item number 151430211431
I checked out this note, this one is within its range.
copperpete
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2014, 05:00:47 pm »

Is it me or there's nobody have seen a green planchette?  I don't see any so this fact renders me a bit suspicious...

Rupiah
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2014, 05:12:09 pm »


Who would a thunk it ?  Coincidentally the note is being offered out of the Russian Federation.  Suspicious or find of a lifetime ?  ???



Pardon my ignorance  ??? but do I gather that the combination of the serial number on this note and its signatures suggest that either this is a fake or a significant error?

If this was a fake would it not be so blatant that the BoC would want to weigh in?


Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
copperpete
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2014, 05:28:58 pm »

Pardon my ignorance  ??? but do I gather that the combination of the serial number on this note and its signatures suggest that either this is a fake or a significant error?

If this was a fake would it not be so blatant that the BoC would want to weigh in?



I checked and the serial correspond to a Coyne-Towers signature.  The Beattie-Coyne begins at serial #1440001, so the  B/C showed cannot exist.  It can even not be an error since a so low number means that the serie had just began and it was impossible to know at that moment who will be the next Deputy Governor/Governor combination, no mention to get any correctly engraved plates...

mmars
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2014, 07:50:49 pm »

I checked and the serial correspond to a Coyne-Towers signature.  The Beattie-Coyne begins at serial #1440001, so the  B/C showed cannot exist.  It can even not be an error since a so low number means that the serie had just began and it was impossible to know at that moment who will be the next Deputy Governor/Governor combination, no mention to get any correctly engraved plates...
I agree with this.  The signature dies for Beattie-Coyne did not exist when this note was printed.  It is extremely unlikely that a sheet of notes was sitting around with serial numbers but no signatures, and then got mixed into the later series to have the B-C signatures added.  A slightly more plausible explanation but still extremely unlikely (in my opinion only) is that the serial numbers are wrong, either set incorrectly by the machine operator or changed during a print run the way mismatched numbers occur.  If that was the case, there would be more notes like this and I doubt it would have taken 60 years for another one to surface.

Some observations...

The eBay listing does not contain the word "error".  The words used in the listing, "extra rare", could mean anything.  There is no guarantee given by the seller that the buyer will receive the item shown.

The given grade is Unc, but the note has a fold on the bottom left corner (as seen on the back side).  The corners of the note are also rounded and clean.  The note does not demonstrate any evidence of original condition, and, at least to me, looks pressed.

The seller did a really nice job of overlaying the image of the front of the note on the image of the back.  Similarly, if I wanted to create a note of this apparent error type, I would take two $50 notes, one Coyne-Towers and one Beattie-Coyne, scan them at the same resolution and optics, and copy and paste the first two digits of the serial number of the C-T note onto the image of the B-C note.  In fact, I did this sort of thing years ago when I created a humorous page on the Internet containing several fake errors.  Manipulating images of paper money is relatively easy.

Have a very close look at the zeroes (00) at the start of each serial number.  There is a tiny black blip inside the first 0 on the left side and inside the second 0 on the right side.  Everything about these two 0's looks exactly the same.  Similarly, the second 0 on the left and the first 0 on the right also appear 100% identical to each other.  To me, this is done by the process I described above, i.e., copying and pasting details from another note.

For anyone who can afford 1925 $500 notes, this is the find of a lifetime.  Go for it.  And I hope the buyer shares with us what he/she receives in the mail.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 07:52:48 pm by mmars »

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mmars
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2014, 08:21:52 pm »

Hey, maybe we should have some fun and conduct a poll.  If you were the high bidder on the given eBay listing, what would you expect to receive in the mail?

A.  A 100% legitimate error note;  :)
B.  A real $50 note with different serial numbers than the note shown in the listing;  :(
C.  A Xerox'ed image of the note shown in the listing;  >:(
D.  Nothing.
:'(

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AZ
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2014, 08:22:50 pm »

There is no guarantee given by the seller that the buyer will receive the item shown.

This is exactly right. I don't think the sellect went into trouble of scanning the actual $50 and $100 notes they are selling, they simply found images of similar notes somewhere on the web.

I always check the seller's feedback and the items they sell, to see if they can be trusted, and how professional they are in dealing with their customers. In this case, besides bundles of circulated Soviet notes from the 1961 series, the seller only sold three other items: 200 euro notes. Two of the notes surprisingly sold for almost half the face value (probably to seller's associates, to help build the feedback), and the third one likely to a "real" seller, for close to face value. Interestingly enough, this seller received an empty envelope. Also, the scans of the 200 euro notes do not show
real notes but rather some kind of replicas.

After doing this investigative work, I would not bid even 5 dollars for either of the two notes. True, if the item is not as described, the buyers can try to get their money back through eBay, but this is clearly the case of "too good to be true".
Manada
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2014, 05:42:09 pm »

It seems that the negative feedback this seller received that was there yesterday has now been removed.

But always, there remained the discipline of steel. - Conan the Barbarian
mmars
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2015, 05:28:18 pm »

The same note has magically reappeared on eBay.  Search for item # 121539448772.  Just a few hours into the 5-day listing, the price is $224 USD and there are 83 bids.  The Russia-based seller is offering free shipping with tracking, so I guess that explains the apparent popularity of this listing.  :D
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 05:33:47 pm by mmars »

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