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Topic: Help/Advice with Brick Searching  (Read 9846 times)
buxvet
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« on: October 03, 2006, 06:56:17 pm »

I have never been a brick searcher but I deicded to give it a whirl today. I got 200 $ 5's. Two sets of 100 with paper wrapper.

1st pack
HON 0451070-0451000
HON 0451168-0451196

2nd pack
HON 2605293-2605392

Why is the first pack a split range ??

Obviously there are no radars
There is a repeater in the first batch. SHould I bother saving that ???

Are inserts usually of a different prefix ?
Is 3.04-3.14 the only known insert range in HON ?

Where do I find the Gilles Pomerleau list ?
I understand you can find the new confirmed insert ranges there.

I also got 50 HOY from a different bank because thats all they said they had in brand new notes. They did not have a wrapper on them and I guess they came from 2 diffreent piles beacause the serial ranges are slightly different.
HOY 8444203-8444219
HOY 8436421-8436453

Is there anything advice I can take in the future. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Sorry for so many questions, but I have to learn.
I have never been a serious collector of currently circulating notes. But it looks like some fun. And at a MUCH LOWER cost than collecting 1900-1954 which has always been my focus.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 07:06:58 pm by buxvet »
Hudson A B
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2006, 08:16:54 pm »

Hi, hopefully I can shed some light....Congratulations by the way on venturing into this side of the Journey Series :)

The Journey series, since the first bricks of FEP $10s were issued in May 2005 have seen CBN send bricks that were not in order 000-999.  There are many jumps from here to there sometimes (See my $20 posting next Thursday night).  Why? Not sure, but has to do with the assembling of the bricks from the already printed and numbered sheets.

When you say brick, make sure you reserve that term for getting a full Brick of 1000 notes.
A group of 100 notes is a bundle, and the relevant information can be innacurate.
The following statement is fact and not opinion: The INSTANT new money hits bank employee hands, they are subject to mix up and shuffling. Therefore reliability is diminished.
The largest factor I would say is from a counting machine that jams, so they take what has been counted and put it back on top.  Thus the information in the bundle is useless.  They often put the original waxy white banding (or BOC banding) back on them, thus making them appear to be untouched.  Just approach that situation with caution.
You still may find insert notes- but that would be based on what is already known.  The reliability of the new possibly mixed bundle to give new information is next to zero.  We have to treat it like that in order to maintain the accuracy of reporting from place to place. Otherwise the integrity of the research would be damaged. It is quite a process.
X-savior, me, bwjm, manada, and suzee all could potentially find critical points with exactly the same sheet info, even though our bricks come from accross the country.  Getting the info from new bricks ensures this.
EVERY critical point, whether itis a QCIN or an insert, should be congruent with the findings from the rest of that brick family. (the other 39 or 44 bricks made from the sheets).  If you get a bundle, and report a finding based on that bundle alone, there is a chance that it matches, but there is the risk that it does not match properly based on how the sheets are printed.  This is why there is a confirmation process of findings, and this is why the confirmed findings must come from true undisturbed bricks.

All you have to do is ask your friendly bank teller if you can order a full brick. (Cost is $11). The purpose is for research on replacement notes.. and go on if neccessary. This is true and be clear on that.  If they say they "can't", understand that they either don't know how, or that they don't want you to do it through them.  The BOC has confirmed to me in a prior phone call that ALL Big 5 banks have the capability to specify new notes for an order (and the $11 charge is what THEY get charged, so they only pass that on, which is a pretty good deal).  Ifyou get a "no", try another branch. It ultimately comes down to who you are talking to and if they know the procedure.  Not all of them do. In fact, you might know alot more about bricks and bills and all that than they could imagine.  To many, it is just another chunck of paper money.  

Make sure to say thank you, and there is nothing wrong with a nominal gift - that is one that will not change their decision about how they handle you as a client.  Start bringing them steak dinners and 24 packs of donuts, and then they might wonder if you have alterior motives (which could be a security threat).  And always, a Christmas card, with names. get to know them as people, and take the time to recognize them.  Spending 33 cents on a card with a personal greeting will go alot farther than picking up a pack of timbits.

Oh!! At first it might be wise to just take them when they come in.  Don't hassle them with re-depositing it there unless they make it clear that that is okay.  When they get it, they want it gone in most cases.

Hope this helps (for anyone).
Good luck and happy hunting!!
H

PS: I am PM ing you some more info re: Gilles list.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 08:24:19 pm by hudsonab »

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copperpete
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2006, 08:20:24 pm »

I began by searching through one or two bundles at time, and when I had the money for, I began to order bricks.  I'm not sure that I was fully rewarded for the time and cash I put in it, but it's the pleasure to find something special.

To answer to your question, it's normal to get split ranges in a given bundle. I find in every brick I get 4 or 5, some time more,  bundles with split ranges...

It's very difficult to tell for sure about any insert find in a bundle or two.  The best is to be able to order an entire brick of new notes with its strapping bands intact, but you must have at least 5000$ on hand plus the fees.  Otherwise, there is always a degree of uncertainity, especially when you find replacement notes.  In that case, you can be lucky and your insert notes are in a know range, but if you find that the insert notes are outside any known range, you cannot be sure that your find is authentic.  There is nothing who tells you that the bundle was not scrambled before the teller give it to you.  The best you can do is to hang on it and wait after a confirmation by a knowledgeable source.


The insert are often in a different prefix, but not always.  But the insert from the same prefix will have a very different range from the rest of the brick (eg: insert range in the 9,9 million  put in a brick in the 2,4 million range)

About the Gilles's list, as I understand it, you must be a client to get it.  But I can have some confirmation indirectly from him.  However if you go the the BWJM's wiki site, you can find a reasonnably accurate (if not exactly up-to-date) list of known insert ranges for every denomination.

For the rest, the other finds are good, whatever you find it in a brick or in a bundle.  Radar, rotators, repeaters, errors are always good.  But what you choose to keep is to you.  You collect and keep what you want and for any reason.

Good luck!


« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 08:26:03 pm by copperpete »

Ottawa
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2006, 08:58:09 pm »

Wow, I'm totally impressed with the scientific knowledge and perseverance of you "brick" searchers and researchers! However, I still yearn for the simpler days of old when one could withdraw money at an ATM and have a reasonable chance of obtaining some "X" replacement notes.

On April 20th, 1991 I went to my local Scotiabank ATM and withdrew something like $250 and received 12 $20 bills and one $10 bill (which happened to be an ADX Replacement). That ATM would only give out $10 bills if you requested an odd amount (e.g., $10, $30, $50, $70, etc.) and even then it would only give you ONE SINGLE $10 bill each time with the rest in twenties. When I latched on to this fact I kept withdrawing $10 at a time and I kept receiving ADX Replacements in a consecutive run. Needless to say, the line of people behind me started to grow very long and I could feel the daggers in my back. I eventually threw in the towel and retreated after receiving about 20 consecutive ADX notes but I'm convinced there were more in the machine. I regret now not going to the back of the line and trying again ....

Yes, 20th April 1991, a day that will live in my numismatic memory forever! I still have seven pieces left having sold off the others over the last 15 years (see scan below). Needless to say, all pieces were in UNC-65 EPQ!

Those were the days!

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 09:05:04 pm by Ottawa »

" Buy the very best notes that you can afford and keep them for at least 10 years. " (Richard D. Lockwood, private communication, 1978).
venga50
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2006, 09:37:31 pm »

Dammit...if you have gone back a few hours later you might have gotten the radar note too!! (ADX3017103).  I do have a question though: can a note remain UNC65 after it has passed through an ATM?  (Geez I hate these numbers after the grades, but I guess I have to get with the times  :().

Hudson A B
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2006, 10:52:17 pm »

Just in regards to roller marks, I started a new thread to help bring that to higher clarity. (Confuses me anyways lol)
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1159926520/0


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buxvet
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2006, 12:54:00 am »

Holy smokes Huds. Your getting too technical for me :-[

I'm more doing it to collect a nice lot of each prefix, I'm thinking of keeping maybe 10 regular notes for each prefix. And get some radars, inserts etc.

Thanks for the clarification on bundle and brick terminology.

I actually got my mother too pick up the two bundles. She has been at the same bank branch since 1971. We never called ahead or anything. She just went in asked to see the manager who she knows and he got her the 2 bundles we asked for pronto.

I thought each 100 bundle came in plastic. So I learned something new right there.
Hudson A B
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2006, 03:23:46 am »

Hello again...hmmm
I bet you could walk down the road and pop into most banks and they would do a trade or a sell of a few bundles without any question at all.  Some banks, you just have to call ahead the day before so they have it ready in their available cash.  Sorry if I took your Q to a different place buxvet, just trying to help (but sometimes I miss the point lol.  Doing the bundle things can yeild good results, but again, the inserts you find, hope that they are in already confirmed ranges. :)

Good luck, and I would recommend doing what you are doing with the bundles if you can. It will help  :)build your prefix collection very nicely.
H

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numismateer
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006, 03:33:45 am »

Holly cow, that ADX story mirrors mine! Only with me it was ENX $5 yellow plate number in 1986. I got 20 out before I called it quits. Unfortunately, I didn't hang on to them long enough to realize any great value.
 

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