2006 $20.00 Setup Note

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

I recently had this note graded by CCGS as you can see from the scans.

Can anyone give me an idea of it's value.

I'm new to this board so I apologize in advance if I have not posted appropriately.

Thanks for your help.
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Isnt that a 20 $ jouney note. Couldn't you still get it any where across Canada or is that one special or has something different. If not, shouldn't be face value at 20$ 

LAtER ---- Ohh I see is it the ink stains

That is a very nice error note!

I have never heard of a setup note before, does anyone have an explanation to this term?

You will note from the scan that the Serial # is also missing the first letter and that the weight is 1.02 grams (thick paper). I believe a normal bank note weighs 1.00 grams.

What are the possibilities of a setup note ever reaching circulation ??

I too have never heard of a setup note before.

I think it is highly presumptive to call this a "set-up" note. On what facts is this hypothesis based? At best, I would call it an error note, but I could not be specific as to the type as I have no idea how something like this would come about. Similar notes were seen not too long ago (sorry, I don't have a link to the thread handy, or a picture), but I have yet to hear a decent explanation as to how these sorts of things could be produced and released to circulation.

If you were the CEO of the company that printed it you would refer to this note as an "embarrassment"!

I have not made any presumptions on this note other than what I received from CCGS. From what I understand the grader was introduced to the terminology by a representative of The Bank of Canada.

Email Quote from CCGS:

 "It is probably a setup note that got out by mistake. There is no catalogue number for this kind of error note. I definitely need to weigh the note as some setup notes are made on thicker paper."

Here is the link I believe BWJM is referring too
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=5444.0;all

There is noticeably something wrong with these notes. My original thought was that a sheet got out that had a problem with the serial numbers. But with the variations in the numbers from the few examples I know of, there might have been more notes that got out. It is possible that this sheet was used as a setup sheet and got out, and yes, that is purely a hypothesis statement from me.

As well, I would have to question the method of weighting the note for authenticating purposes. Why? I am not an expert in this, as I do not have the data to back me up, but through observation, the journey series has many different production variations amongst themselves:

Lacquer vs. non-lacquer,
Thin paper vs. thick paper,
Lightly inked vs. heavily inked
Cut slightly larger vs. smaller

The printing details along with the security will need to be examined very closely in order to determine if it is a genuine note, which I am sure it has been thoroughly examined as it has been graded.

This is a tough one for sure, what type of note is this? Could be considered a misplaced serial number, that is a partial digit serial number, with missing serial number along with ink smears. Boy that is a mouth-full.

Just my thoughts.

Thank you for your opinions and insight into this note.

Does anyone have an opinion on it's value ?

For sure this is a unique, (like most errors), and I repeat what has been said over & over again, It is worth what someone will pay. The most important part is that you try and get your initial investment out.

As for a value, that is a tough one, and is based on what I think in the current market. I would estimate that this would sell in the $200-$400 range, but could be higher due to the fact that serial number is inverted.

Question:

Given that this note has only 2 letters in the prefix and assuming the first letter is actually the second letter, wouldn't the "O" mean this serial number should have been assigned to a $ 5.00 note rather than a $ 20.00 note ?

Thanks for your help.

When you're dealing with mismatched serial numbers, the mechanical process behind the error is that one or more wheels on the numbering device have fallen out of sync, or are otherwise not set to what they should be. At that point, anything can happen. I've seen a prefix of HQQ before.

Where's Tom when you need him?

In the printing process, there a several different machines that paper must go though. All of these stages need to be adjusted, inked, registered (lined up), tested, and in this case, the tumblers on the number machine need to be aligned. When new ink is added to the press, sometimes you can "over-ink" the rollers, and it takes a number of sheets to evenly distribute it.

Before you run "good" sheets through the press, you run through sheets that you do not intend to ship. If there is waste from an earlier process, you use those sheets to get the next step "setup". Once these "setup" sheets have been used a number of times, they get destroyed. If you run out of "setup" sheets and you're not finished the setup, you then use "good" sheets and they become "setup" sheets and are suppose to be kept in a separate pile from the finished "good" sheets. You obviously don't want to destroy too much paper, but you also want to have a perfect print job.

Much discussion has gone on about how many steps there are and in what order they happen. The banknotes companies aren't talking.

That's what a "setup" sheet is.

Much discussion has gone on about how many steps there are and in what order they happen. The banknotes companies aren't talking.

Unfortuantely the only thing I have ever found on the BOC website is that
"Each plate carries a part of the total design of the bank note, with a total of eight plates required for a typical note."
I did see a set of notes showing the various stages of printing at a recent coin show, but they not available to photocopy
I guess we need a mole on the inside.....