Torex Auction TPG PMG & PCGS Notes not Selling.

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

I looked at the Torex auction results this morning from the first session and it appears that at least 80% and 90% of the notes graded by TPG firms PMG & PCGS did not sell.  Are the auction house estimates/client reserves on lots that out of 'whack' compared to the realities of the current market for paper money?  It would appear that notes graded from these two companies have been discounted by Canadian PM collectors.  I don't know what this type of auction's international exposure is and if so Americans are not even buying these note based on this auction results.

Interestingly, the coins sold in this 1st Session appeared to sell well and notes graded by the Canadian TPG firms appeared to fair a lot better.

I have never have purchase TPG graded notes but based on these results I don't think I ever will - well PMG  & PCGS (without a significant discount and removing them from the holders).

Just my observations

Every note should be assessed before purchase, no matter what holder it is in. I have seen notes graded by PMG and PCGS that were undergraded. I have seen notes in Canadian companies' holders that were vastly overgraded. Buy the note, not the holder....

Whether most of the notes in the auction found buyers or not, it actually has nothing to do (or very very little to do) with those notes being graded by PMG and PCGS.  It is not a big secret that most items on the block by this auctioneer have hidden reserves equal to the lower estimate.  I will not elaborate further, but it is safe to say that the results of this auction should not be interpreted as having any great significance, no matter what sort of angle you want to take.

The same auctioneer holds monthly (or nearly monthly) auctions on icollector.com.  To see if a particular note in the Torex Sale sold, check to see if it is listed in the next online auction.  If it is, nobody bought it.

I have seen notes graded by PMG and PCGS that were undergraded.

Do you actually mean the notes "looked undergraded"?  I, for one, can't fathom any way of knowing with certainty that a note IS undergraded without removing it from the holder.

No, I mean the notes were undergraded.
It's plastic covering the notes. It's transparent (or at least translucent). There's different lighting available to assess them under.
I have carefully examined many notes seen undergraded notes with a PMG or PCGS holder, bought and cut them out.
I am a conservative grader and have been grading notes for a long time.
TPG graders are human and mistakes are made.
Again, the bottom line: If you buy the note, not the holder, you will be happier.

Hmm, interesting.  The only PMG-graded notes I have seen that appeared better than their assigned grades were net graded.  Net grading is the practice of reducing the technical grade of a note because of a particular flaw.  As if PMG grading standards are not enigmatic enough (at least to me), it behooves me to understand how they net grade some notes and not others.  I had a US note that was PMG-15 (shown in this thread), and the note has both wear holes and edge tears.  Not only was the note not net graded, but there was no mention of these defects anywhere on the holder.  Perhaps the note WAS net graded, but not printed on the holder (at the submitter's request??).

Alas, if anyone has a picture of a PMG note that actually looks better than its assigned grade and it is NOT a net graded piece, please post it.  Or send it to me and I'll post it (log in to get my e-mail addy).