Skip-numbering by 200 - Watch your position numbers!

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

Recent research has determined that polymer $20s starting with prefix FIW are being skip-numbered by 200.

This is important because lately there has been some discussions about not entering sequential runs of notes into the SNDB.  While this guideline is still in place, you should be diligent in checking position numbers.  If you have a brick of new notes that are all sequential, it is possible that the position numbers may change one or more times within your brick.  This information is valuable to the SNDB.

Should you encounter such a scenario, please enter 1-2 notes from each group of sequential notes having the same position numbers.  For example, if your brick is made up of five groups of notes as follows (I've made up the below info):
1) FIY 1234000 - 1234199  11/11
2) FIY 1234200 - 1234399  12/12
3) FIY 1234400 - 1234599  13/13
4) FIY 1234600 - 1234799  14/14
5) FIY 1234800 - 1234999  15/15
... Then I would recommend adding 10 notes to the SNDB: 1234000, 1234199, 1234200, 1234399, 1234400, 1234599, 1234600, 1234799, 1234800 and 1234999.

So please be extra careful when checking position numbers.  Not only are they small and often hard to read, but the new skip-numbering may mean that they will change within a brick.

And on an unrelated note, we're seeing a higher than usual amount of errors in recording position numbers for polymer $50s.  I know they're very difficult to read, but please take care in recording them.  Use a magnifying glass or loupe if it helps.  Accurate information is important in order to provide valuable research data.

Thank you!

To put a slightly different perspective on matters, nothing has really changed with regards to brick data.  From what the brick hunters are saying, bricks are becoming increasingly mixed, and it is not really hard to see what is happening.  A brick is just a group of 10 bundles, and it is the bundle that is the primary unit of note packaging and distribution.  But even bundles seem to have diverse position numbers, prompting me to wonder if bundles are being made from cut single notes.  We know they cut 100 sheets at a time, so bundles made from these sheets tend to get grouped together into a brick instead of 10 bundles coming from 10 different groups of 100 sheets.

Anyhow, brick hunters who want to report their finds to the SNDB have pretty much the same task, except the BIG difference is they could encounter position number changeovers within sequential runs as BWJM points out.  To make things simple for the brick people, they should remember to check sequential runs for notes ending in 99 and 00, and if a run contains these notes sequentially, make sure to check the position numbers of BOTH notes.  If they have different position numbers, report both.  Otherwise just report the first and last notes in the sequential run as normal.

We know they cut 100 sheets at a time,

I will admit that I am new to all aspects of banknotes compared to a lot of forum members with much more experience. So pardon me if I question basic things.

But if you go to the Bank of Canada website at the following address:

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/bank-note-videos/

and look at the video on production and go to time stamp of 2:05 you will see that the notes are being cut much more than 100 at a time. It looks like at least 200 at a time perhaps 300.

Am I missing something here? Now it is possible that the video may have been made to trick us but then BoC is not BEP. 

Is it possible that even though the BoC may be using a skip-number of 8000 they may be printing notes only 200 sheets at a time? I think so. Why would the do it? The answers lie not in the numbering of notes but the shortcomings of the printing process.

I had a look at the video in question and it does indeed appear that sheets were being cut in larger quantities than 100.  I don't know if polymer sheets are easier to cut than paper, but we know that the Journey series had at least two different materials, including the metallic security threads, and that probably made it harder to cut stacks of sheets with accuracy and consistency.  The polymer notes seem to be a little bit thinner, although the tactile raised dots for visually impaired people add some variability to note thickness.  A skip interval of 200 could mean that stacks of sheets printed 200 at a time could then be cut 200 at a time, hence streamlining the production process.  We have yet to determine how frequently the short skip interval is used.

Hasn't the 200 skip numbering started with the 20 FIW, FIY, FIZ and going into FSA etc. The wiki site seems to suggest that the $100 EK-- are all 8000 and so are other 20s and 50s produced by CBN.

On the thicknesses -  Here are the thickness and weight values from a report prepared for BoC

$20 Polymer - 9.1mm and 93 gms for 100
$20 Journey - 11.5mm and 102 gms for 100

An estimation based on the scale of other things around the cutting table in the video seems to suggest the number of sheets being cut at the same time to be more than 19mm (or 3/4 inch the thickness of 200 polymer sheets). In any case it might be a moot point because the video may not be representative of the full production cutting but rather the initial notes that were prepared. It is also possible that the cutting of 100 notes at a time comes from information publicly available about US notes.

Also even though it seems intuitive to think that a 200 skip interval means 200 sheets printed at a time and 8000 skip interval means 8000 sheets printed at a time the video may provide some clues to the contrary. It looks like the 8000 sheets are being run in many shorter "lifts".

and that probably made it harder to cut stacks of sheets with accuracy and consistency

I have catalogued edge condition of journey notes that have been found in circulation in crisp condition and the same thing with polymer notes. I am sure that the metallic strip and thread played a role in the nature of the cut etc. The data that I have to date indicates more edge/dimension problems with polymers and almost none with journey (other than the known cupping issue at the thread). 

So even though the journey notes may have been harder to cut the edge consistency and dimensional stability is much better in journey notes than in polymers (at least the 100 and 50 polymer - 20 polymer is much better). I would be happy to compare notes - outside of the forum - on this with anyone who has embarked on a similar research (I have no intention of publishing it  but would be happy to work with anyone who would like to do so).

Some subtle and interesting changes seem to be happening  in the way which the Canadian Bank Notes are produced. Even though the BoC may not publicly provide information about their production there are pieces of information available which when put together provides some compelling clues.