Raw vs Graded Bills

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I have a question which I think a lot of collectors might be having in their mind as well, is it a good idea to have third party graded bills in our collection or just raw bills ? Is it very common to have graded bills of common prefixes in higher grades (I have seen people collecting high graded TPG bills of common prefixes) or should the third party graded bills be limited for tougher prefixes and bills ?
I guess most of us would like to pass on our collections to their future generations and keeping this is mind what should a person do ?
An insight into this would be helpful.
Thanks

I've been collecting notes for 40+ years and I have always preferred raw, ungraded notes.

Recently, I thought that I should get some of my better notes professionally graded and every single one of them came back at a lower grade than what I bought the note for.

Additionally, when trying to sell these graded notes, it is almost certain that buyers will offer you much less than the catalogue value anyway.

The way I see it is that unless you can make a profit on a note with the cost of grading factored in, I would not bother to have the note graded by a third party.

I also made the mistake of buying graded notes with the intent to resell them; I either lost money or barely broke even.  This experience has soured me on third party grading and my aversion to purchasing graded notes has limited my choice of notes to buy at shows because more and more notes are being "slabbed".

In my opinion, if you want to pass a collection to your family, the best thing to do is to make your own detailed inventory list including the price you paid for the note and its grade, determined at the time of purchase.  Tell your family or heirs about this list and update it frequently as pieces are added or removed from your collection.

Learn how to grade banknotes yourself; it's a skill that any seasoned collector should know.

is it a good idea to have third party graded bills in our collection or just raw bills?

I don't really know if there is a right or wrong answer to this. For me it depends on the collection.

For my signature collection, everything is graded and I do this for 2 reasons. A) I enjoy order and symmetry in my collection, and B) my collections will be passed down to my son. I want him to know exactly what each item is.

As Dean has mentioned, sending notes in to be graded can be disappointing so I buy notes that are already graded and I do not collect a note unless I agree with the grade it was given.

For my prefix collections, the vast majority is raw. Only some of the replacements are graded.

Learn how to grade banknotes yourself; it's a skill that any seasoned collector should know.

100% agree

 

I have a question which I think a lot of collectors might be having in their mind as well, is it a good idea to have third party graded bills in our collection or just raw bills ? Is it very common to have graded bills of common prefixes in higher grades (I have seen people collecting high graded TPG bills of common prefixes) or should the third party graded bills be limited for tougher prefixes and bills ?
I guess most of us would like to pass on our collections to their future generations and keeping this is mind what should a person do ?

-These are great questions. I have both TPG notes & ungraded sets as well.
First off, I think every collector should keep in mind that Third Party Grading is a 2nd (impartial) person's opinion on the grade of the note & it helps preserve said note.  That is all TPG is.  Second, the collector should develop a set of criteria for him/herself before considering certified notes. For most, it may be what the note is worth (& consider this against the cost of certifying). For others, it may be a minimum grade that the owner believes the note to be. A person submitting Large Sized USA & Dominion notes may have a lower threshold grade in mind than someone submitting later Birds/Journey series.
If you remember the first part (what TPG really is) you will also be critical about which TPG you select. You will want a conservative TPG co. you believe is going to fairly grade your note & that certified note will look presentable after its been graded.  I think that is why the old PCGS failed- their holders were flimsy (didn't protect the note) & look unattractive. Many advanced collectors know how to grade & once they see a few holders that are clearly flawed, they tend to shun that TPG too.

I would not recommend TPG if your grading skills are weak & I wouldn't recommend it for regular Bank of Canada prefixes (unless its a tough series like 1935/1954 Devils- when the prefix is less relevant). I've seen some collectors recommend that your note be worth $500 (minimum threshold) but I go with 10X FV, a special number or even a tough change-over (I believe to be underrated). I do not submit to flip (or make a profit) but to make the note more liquid (easier to sell).  And I like the presentation of TPG notes (plus they're sealed/will be preserved better than from a regular PVC-free sleeve).  I like to think that my collection will be easier to liquidate for whoever inherits them but that's not truly why I submitted the notes. 

I often purchase World TPG notes (at a certain price level) b/c I don't trust the grading skills of most sellers (plus scans don't really show the whole story).  And I grade each note (whether its certified or not).  I have seen several poorly graded notes by all the TPG'ers so "buy the note, not the holder." There are some sellers I trust & for lower valued notes I still buy uncertified. To me, it is worth it to pay a little more for a clean looking expensive note with EF + EPQ (or "Original") then to throw the dice & hope the note is truly the grade stated.  I don't buy notes without the EPQ or "Original" b/c they've either been pressed or cleaned. I don't think I should be paying a premium for an "apparent" grade. Remember that most TPG don't list issues or why the note doesn't get the Original/EPQ designation (b/c this would shut down their business) but its in your best interest to buy original. Many more notes are pressed than original notes when you go for older Canadian series. I believe this holds true for most older World notes too.

thanks a lot for all the responses I really appreciate it.

@ Dean, I have been collecting for a while and its nowhere near your collecting journey and experience. I would rate my grading skill as "Intermediate" and with time I think I will become a better grader and may be then i would say i have a few feathers in my cap.
I know its a whole different situation when you try to buy and sell  TPG bills, but till now i am in the process of building my sets and have few bills to change hands.
You are absolutely right about getting the raw bills graded only and only if i am able to make a profit, that's the reason why off late i am trying to buy TPG bills which i like.
I have maintained a detailed excel sheet according to catalogue number, year, denomination, signatures, type (graded/nongraded), cost, when bought (along with year and month, as it helps me in tracking if there is a variation in value since i bought) as helps me in getting my bills organized and try to find the missing holes and work accordingly.  i think this way my future generation will be able to know what exactly they have.

@q60driver, you gave me food for thought about having TPG bills. Lately, I have been trying to buy TPG bills but the reviews of grading companies vary vastly. Hence, I buy the bills which i like irrespective of the company. In building up my Charlton number set i am trying to accommodate mostly TPG bills as it will help my inheritor to know what they actually have. I like raw bills but they always have a point of contention and that's the reason I am trying to avoid them for not so budget friendly bills.

@walktowater, I am a big fan of your site " Notaphilyc  Culture". I have been following your website for sometime as it is very informative. It is very difficult to pick a particular TPG company , that's why I buy only those bills which i like as that makes me satisfied and happy.  I only buy TPG bills with " EPQ / PPQ / Original" designation and I am happy to pay extra for that. Any insights on how to grade the bills would be highly appreciated. I agree with you that graded bills are easy to liquidate and have protective casing which ensures that the bill wont be easily damaged.

Thanks.

For grading, a great place to start is the Charlton catalogue's nine page grading section (pp. xxi – xxix). Of course it doesn't cover every possible scenario, but it does contain a lot of good information, including how to detect processed notes, a section for polymer notes, and plenty of colour photos noting different condition issues on paper notes. Any of the recent year's catalogues will do, but in 2024 they upgraded the photos that were used in previous editions, and they now have completely new examples with improved exposure/contrast. If, like most collectors, you own or have access to a Charlton catalogue, then you already have an informative grading resource at your fingertips.

The next step is learning to apply this book knowledge to your own collection, which takes time and practice. One useful tip I learned is to scan my notes at high resolution, which allows me to zoom-in and view them under magnification. This is helpful for all notes, and especially for polymer notes. Most TPGs also examine notes under magnification as part of the grading process.

Another fun learning exercise is to critically evaluate each of your TPG notes to see which grades you agree with and which ones you don't. I have found notes from every TPG service that I think are over-graded and/or which appear to have missed some important fault(s) or detail(s). That said, I believe some TPGs are consistently more accurate with their grading, while others seem to fall short more often. All the more reason to hone your own grading skills.

@walktowater, I am a big fan of your site " Notaphilyc  Culture". I have been following your website for sometime as it is very informative.

-Thanks, I really appreciate the vote of confidence!  & centred yesterday's entry around your thread.
https://sites.google.com/view/notaphilycculture/collecting-banknotes

For grading, a great place to start is the Charlton catalogue's nine page grading section ... The next step is learning to apply this book knowledge to your own collection, which takes time and practice.

- @rxcory sums it up nicely.  Arm yourself with as much grading info as possible & then try it on your own notes & start assessing each note before you see the holder (a lot of auction houses provide scans of both note & note with holder).  Take your time & pretend you are the note detective & your goal is to find issues or minor imperfections. The only thing I would like to add is that TPG also employ light boxes & put the notes up to those (+ ultraviolet light to see the note is indeed legit). Both lights will show signs of washing & processing too (not to mention magnification/loupe helps).

In yesterday's "Collector's Corner" entry, I looked for a few of the WMG (World Money Grade) images from the TCNC but could not find the ones I saw earlier which had clearly over graded examples. So I reviewed some possible under graded low # notes certified by CCCS.  I read the auction houses descriptions & always take a closer examination of notes that they recommend one assess for themselves.  I think it is fair to state that one develops biases either "pro" or "con" graded (& ungraded) notes.  Typically, we end up going with a TPG note once the price gets high enough & you know you want a certain quality for X amount.

I also comb through as many forums as I can on the subject of GRADING & even browse distasteful threads such as those on REPAIRS, Restoration & WASHED notes since they often provide great examples of washed/repaired notes. I look for "TELLS" like a poker player reads the face of his opponents. White line where a note has been creased? That's a "tell" for me & I typically consider this evidence of a washed note. I look for undisturbed/unfaded planchettes on the 1954 & earlier series for original paper.

Another activity I often do is put on my "detective cap" when I see a high graded note without "EPQ" or "original" & then try to see what the experts discovered (for them to not grant it original status). Where or how was this note processed?  The biggest take-away about grading is it takes a bit of time, a lot of patience & looking at a lot of notes before you start to get the hang of it. 

@ rxcory, thanks a lot for pointing me towards the right direction.

@walktowater, thanks a lot for guidance.