HOG insert vs out-of-place notes

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

I got a brick of 5$ notes in the HOG prefix:  HOG4196000-999.  
There was 2 inserts:  HOG0796240 and xxx740, but more interesting, there was 12 out-of-place notes:  HOG4196318-323 and xxx818-823 that were placed just under the insert notes, between xxx000-001 and xxx500-501.  
And the missing notes were xxx324 and xxx824.

I read in another post (I don't remember which one) that the seemingly out-of-place note were the "new inserts" to explain these notes, but I never bought this theory.  It makes far more sense to think that these notes were some inspected notes and found OK and put back in the stack.

And the theory of "inspected" notes gains support with this finding (combined with another one posted yesterday if I remember well).  In my case,  the inspector have taken out some sheets (7) from the stack, have inspected them and found one defective  and replaced it by an insert sheet and put back all the taken out sheets in the stack.  

I think that they don't check all the notes printed (too much time-consuming).  They would rather take one sheet or two at random and inspect them carefully and put them back in the stack.  But when they suspect a problem (ink smears, lack of ink, out-of register,  etc.) which can occurs on many consecutive notes, they take out the surrounding notes and replace those one which are really defective, the rest can be found correct and put back all the sheets with the inserts in the stack.

The thread you refer to mentioned the possibility  that inspection notes ( as we know them now ) may have been a sign that the CBN had found a way to print identicle sheets to replace ruined ones.

The theory was based on two initial findings of " out of position " notes in full bricks. Neither brick had any inserts.  

The theory was quickly shot down with the first find of a brick which contained both inserts and inspection notes.

Inspection notes seem to be found in the majority of CBN $5 and $10 bricks. I have had bricks which contain notes from 2 or 3 inspection sheets. I suppose that an inspection sheet pulled and found to have an error would lead to more than the usual 2 or 3 sheets inspected.

Gary

I fully agree with gary on this point. They are nothing but inspectione notes. I have had two bundles of Hog notes, both with out of order inspection notes with no inserts. Otherwise the bricks were pristine.   Thx

Hi everyone, excellent discussion on this topic and I am glad to see we are all on the same page on this.  
For reference in regards to copperpete's original post in this thread, the prior post about this interseting phenomenon was:
**NEW NOTES appearing out of sequential order*
and the link is:
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=journey;action=display;num=1110847092;start=20#20

It is an interesting read, as the story was unfolding.

I'm glad to read all the comments about this topic (including those posted in the thread mentionned by Hudson).

For now, the next thing to know is the following:  when we'll  find any combination of insert and QCIN notes, is the inserted note/sheet always replace the one which was taken out with the inspected notes?  In other words, is the missing note(s) will always be  in sequence with the inspection notes?

I suggest that:  anyone who reports insert and inspection notes found in the same brick could also reports the missing note in order to find any trend...

Hi copperpete, I am alittle unclear on your above post about sequencing...

What I have found is this:
Typicaly the brick would start with the 000 note.  Then it would be followed by the genuine insert notes, then before the 001 note, there would be the QCINs, THEN the 001 note. (Same idea for the upper half of the brick.)

For example a bottom half of a brick would follow this pattern:
HOF 1234000
HOG xxxxxxp - insert note
HOG xxxxxxq - insert note
HOG xxxxxxr - insert note
HOG xxxxxxs - insert note
HOF 1234222 - QCIN
HOF 1234388 - QCIN
HOF 1234499 - QCIN
HOF 1234001

The top half of the brick would then follow as:
HOF 1234500
HOG xxxxyxp - insert note
HOG xxxxyxq - insert note
HOG xxxxyxr - insert note
HOG xxxxyxs - insert note
HOF 1234722 - QCIN
HOF 1234888 - QCIN
HOF 1234999 - QCIN
HOF 1234501

I used the numbers for the QCIN's on purpose - they have been found in this grouping in numerous bricks, but other variations exist of course.

I had just recently found HOG's with HOG inserts AND HOG QCINs, and it followed this exact pattern.  (Only one insert note in each half of the brick though).

Copperpete, still if you could clarify what you were proposing in the above post I would greatly apreciate it.
Many Thanks,
Hudson

Here are the details of 2 bricks of HOD on Thursday at a branch of the T-D in Georgetown, Ontario.

HOD 9845001 - 999

Top half

001, HOG0805471, 222, 444, 002, missing note was 000.

Bottom half

501, HOG 0805971, 722, 944, 502, missing note 500.

HOD 9848001 - 999

Top half

001, HOG 0808471, 222, 444, 002, missing note 000.

Bottom half

501, HOG 0808971, 722, 944, 502, missing note 500

One of the most interesting things about this find is that, a few months ago, glassmancanada reported getting bricks HOD 9841, 2, 3, and 6 (bricks from the exact ream)[/b]). His bricks came from a branch of the Bank of Nova Scotia in Edmonton. His bricks were missing the 000/501, inserts were numbered HOG 0801471 & 1971, 2471 & 2971, 3471 & 3971, 6471 & 6971 and his inpection notes were 222/444 - 722/944 in each brick.

Thank goodness we both kept the details of our finds.  

Sorry Hudson, I'll try to be clearer.

What I said is simply to take note, in addition of the insert notes and QCIN, of which ones are missing in the brick.  Are their serial numbers in sequence with one or another inspected notes?  

Example:  HOG1234000,  insert HOG0777777, inspection notes HOG1234222, xxx444 and xxx499. (and so on un the second half of that brick).  The missing note should be one of these:  xxx221; xxx223;  xxx443;  xxx445 or xxx498, in the case where the replacement of damaged or spoiled sheets is made in the surroundings of inspected notes.  

The pattern can be more complicated in the case where there is two or more inserts...But I hope that will clarify my thought...

Hi There,

I have been catching up but I have seen this Phenomenon with my HOG $5 bricks I got. I had HOG7108999 to HOG7110998 and then a brick HOG7117999-HOG7118998 (I think that's correct... 3000 Bills)

Anyways, This was all in one order (Why the Gap not too sure other than the next one WOULD have had 7111117 and that would have REALLY made my day. But Anyways, I have noticed these QCIN bills out of order. It was almost ALWAYS when a bundle started with say *00 instead of the usual *99. There would be an out of order note around 400 - 500 out of sequence. On 2 occasions I was even able to put it back where it belonged as I had enough in the range to see it. I was mad that the bill was MISSING then to have it show up 500 Bills later was INTERESTING.  

Not sure what to say, From what I understand then the TRUE replacement notes are a different Prefix then? I only had 1 in the last 3100 I searched. There was an HOR note in an HOS bundle I got.

I am ordering another 3 Bricks of $10's and then I will do the same with $5's again. (Scoop them up before the new ones come out). Does the BoC pre-screen the Bricks/Bundles for *Good* Ones that they keep or send to *SPECIAL* people? Or is it totally impartial?  :-?

You don't very often get consecutive bricks of notes when 3 are ordered. The fives are sent to distribution in blocks of 4000 notes. Even full blocks may not contain consecutive bricks. Its the luck of the draw when your order get filled.

Yea, I agree.  

Usually the bricks are slightly out from each other. But on several occasions I had 3-4 Bricks ALL SEQUENTIAL. The most Boring bricks I ever did were BEZ. I have 3000 notes all perfectly inm sequence without a SINGLE missing or out of place note. I guess it's not so bad to say you have a run of 3000 sequential notes  

If you do get bricks, try and get a sealed block of 4 bricks (I like to call it the "Super Brick")

The last time I got a Block of $5's it contained about 40 Insert HOR Notes. The bank didn't want to even open it, they just handed it all over to me like this.

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