1000 Note range Registry?

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

Hey Everyone

So are we going to start a Registry for all of the 1000 Note ranges? Because the note on ebay is now at almost $400


Arthur

I think it is a little premature for a registry on single note replacements (SNR) since ranges are still being
established and in many cases initial ranges are being extended.  A perfect example is the current
AOH (9.549M - 9.552M) range.

This range was initially established as an AOH (9.549M - 9.550M) 1000 note range.  As additional SNR
finds were made in an adjoining 1000 note range this SNR range was extended to 2000 and finally to
the existing 3000 note range.

It is reasonable to believe that many of the existing AOH SNR ranges will be expanded from their current
1000 note ranges to larger extended ranges.

I think it would be prudent to wait a year or longer for the ranges to shake out and all finds, data and
research to be reviewed before establishing something as long term and historically significant as a
registry for these SNR notes.

I agree.

SNR is so new that things can change in the blink of an eye.

After the 21st Edition many of the current notes will be in a position to begin a registry.

At this point letting things settle down and let the market play out is the best option.

I propose a registry for each prefix of Birds $2s.

Let things get figured out before proposing registries.

I am definately in favour of a registry for each prefix of Birds $2 notes but would recommend that we
upgrade the server to several terabytes of storage and insist that notes not be added to these new
registries unless JPEG images are provided and pre-formated to the following specs:

All notes:
    Cropped close to the edge with little or no space around the note.
    1px #000000 border around the image.
 
All Bank of Canada Notes:
    Width = 428px
 
Bank of Canada Notes Multicoloured Series and Newer:
    Overlay SPECIMEN layer (available on request)
 
Save as JPG images. Quality is not important. File size for BoC notes tends to be around 20-30kB. File size for larger notes (ie: DoC, etc) tend to be around 40-50kB.
 
File naming convention:
    Charlton number
    Serial number (include series letters before serial, and check digits following serial)
    Image type (front, reverse, serial number)
    Each field separated by underscores
    ie: BC-49cA-i_EDX1234567_R.jpg
    ie: DC-10_123456D_R.jpg


Just trying to make life easier for all those involved in maintaining these important new registries.   

Are these 1000 Note range Registry notes really worth a high premium, $400 is seams alot for a new note. I am questioning the long-term investment here since this is a new thing and not much is known at this time. Are these notes ranges going to expand, and if so, will this hurt the initial investment into these notes leaving the purchaser with an over priced note??

With any published list that comes out, there is a sentance stating that ranges may expand as future research continues.   
Secondly, there is alot known about these - in regards to why they are 1000 note ranges.
Thirdly, with any note there is inherent risk in valuation fluctuations to some degree.  Supply vs demand.

SNR's are nearly impossible to find.  Many bricks to search, with nothing, also means that finding them is a very costly venture on average.  That also has to be factored in.

Agreed,

You can search over 200 Bricks and never find a SINGLE SNR Insert.

The people who have found a few only have a couple of them. They are so rare that the few that have exchanged hands have been in the form of trades for OTHER SNR Inserts.

We must also remember that because the range is 1000 notes does not mean there are 1000 notes available. Many of the ranges may only have up to 10 - 15 Notes that actually exist (Have been found) at most.

If you go back through the Charlton take a look at the replacement notes that have approx 40 Known notes. Look how much they are....

The people who are buying these notes right now for as little as they are going (Initially) are getting quite the bargin. These notes will slingshot as soon as everyone realizes how incredibly RARE they are.

I think many people are jumping the gun on SNRs. Equating apples to oranges just isn't right. This is how I believe this thing went off the track.

A short range of BEU was confirmed based on 3 independent finds over the period of about 6 months. These replacements were found in bricks from BTD 8.8, BTE and BTF 1.0. The bricks were very unusual because they didn't come in individual paper banded bundles of ten and then shrink wrapped as is normal with BABN. These bricks were of 1000 consecutive notes with two heavy plastic bands as one would normally see CBN bricks. From every brick one random note had been pulled from 000-499 and another from 500-999. Two BEU replacements were inserted into the bricks between position 000 and 001. All of the replacements had different position numbers than the mother brick and were numbered consecutively from brick to brick so we know they were single note replacements. Another odd thing about the BEU replacements was that a severe cutting cup was found at the top right of each note as if they had been cut by CBN. And yet another oddity was that the replacements were printed in 2004 but inserted into 2005 printed prefixes. These bricks and replacements reminded me of the find of FEP which was confirmed by the BoC. Two random notes taken out and replacements inserted between positions 000-001. OK so now we have a significant SNR with only 10 notes documented with a range of 199 notes spread over approx 12,200,000. All of the BEU replacements have band marks as well as other damage. Along with the BEUs one brick also had a run of BEY 2.961 replacements which was a hint to me that the BoC may have been involved in pulling random notes for testing of some kind.

Now the $5 notes. A brick searcher found and odd brick of AOJ I believe. No white paper bands on bundles, just 1000 consecutive notes with 2 heavy plastic bands, two random notes missing and 2 odd AOM 0.48 replacements with different position numbers inserted between 000-001. He contacted me and Gilles to see if we knew anything. Gilles couldn't help but I mentioned that they sounded just like the BEU so just keep the info and wait for another. Over the next two weeks he received a total of 6 bricks all the same weird attributes. He continually reported to Gilles on each find and one day Gilles said he also had multiple finds of AOK 4.08 in similarly packaged bricks. The day after I talked with Gilles I received 2 of the same type of bricks but with AOP 7.07 replacements inserted between 000-001. This find was posted on this site the day of the find. A member of this site had earlier reported to me that he had found 2 AOH 1.08 between 000-001 but in what he called a broken brick ( fresh but counted by the bank ). The AOHs were not in very good condition but I told him to hang on until more info was reported.  As it turns out a BoC rep just happened to preview an AOH 1.08 note in Mississauga just before the notes went into circulation. This brought back memories of the FEP notes that were confirmed by the BoC.

I believe the 4 above mentioned $5 prefix ranges are somewhat special. It looks to me like the BoC pulled random notes for testing and inserted these notes as replacements. I believe these notes to be at very least scarce and should command a significant premium.

The problem, as I see it, is that all other SNRs that came in regular shrink wrapped packaging are somehow being equated to the above 4 special cases. Sure some of the SNRs may be somewhat tough to get right now. Then again I'm sure some of the 14 ranges of AOH SNRs will join to make 7 or 8. Bricks of all prefixes are still coming out so we don't know what will happen. Getting info is somewhat tough so I'm just letting you know what I know about some of the current ranges. One day, I'm sure, all pertinent information will be available with a simple mouse click.

I'm sure this post will ruffle a lot of feathers but it is best that things don't get out of hand.   


Gary

This is incredibly important: (what sudzee is pointing out)

There are SNRs that have come in really odd packing patterns, as described over and over - the twomissing per brick, in CBN bands, although printed by BABN.

THEN, there are SNR's being found that are in the shrink wrapped bricks. Meaning, they are put in by the printer - for sure.
Now, since we already see that these kind of SNRs are surfacing, one must be cautious not to compare scarcity of one kind to another.  If they are coming right from the printers, then the liklihood of "more" being found seems to be sensible.

How many-? Who knows.

How about the others? In the CBN style packing?  Possibly an already exhausted supply, but again,we do not know for sure-- however the pattern was TWO notes per brick only.

The other ones, are being found in larger quantities -- although still rare as heck as any brick searcher knows,.... but they cannot be directly compared to those early found AOK, AOP, AOM ranges that came in the CBN banding.  It is a whole different animal.
To restate, SNR's are very hard to find = true.
Depending on packing style, the contained replacements may be extreeeemly scarce, or could alternatively be replacements inserted by the printers, at a possibly higher frequency (although still very infrequent).

Are the snr always put in by a printer if the bundles are wrapped in white bands and the 10 bundles banded in a white paper band and then shrikwrapped?
FRIEDSQUID

Great Info Gary!!! 

As Gary's research has discovered, the packing difference has come to light recently for the following reason...

Sometimes when one printer is too busy to handle doing everything it's self (Printing and Packaging) what they will do is Subcontract to the OTHER printer the job of packaging the notes.

It has been noted that is has been occurring for almost 20 years now.

The reason for the BEU Style replacements was that it was figured that when they shipped the BABN notes to CBN to be packaged they also sent several bundles of notes to be used for last-minute replacements of damaged or missing notes. (AFTER THE PRINTING PROCESS). So they were placed int he same spots that was typical for CBN (Memories of the 2002 $5 Notes came to mind with finding Inserts at predictable points).

So yes, We are dealing with TWO DIFFERENT TYPES of SNR Notes.

I must also confirm that SNR Notes in ANY case EXTREMELY difficult to get and is sheer luck if anyone gets one or two.

Thus the difference in price between the CBN Packaged BAI (BABN) SNR Notes that go for around $1200 and the BAI (BABN) SNR's that are currently going for $380 - $400 each. So if you look at it there actually is a very high premium being placed on the REALLY REALLY RARE SNR's. I agree that the regular SNR's should not be selling for $1000 - $1200 (That is just ridiculous).

Just something to think about, we all want to be on the same page... 

$1000 to $1200?

I thought the pricing levels were in the $50-$80 range vs $300- $400 range.  But hey, I was away for the long weekend, maybe things have changed   

Has one of these been sold on ebay or something?