SNDB Concerns????

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

I will start by saying I am not convinced although I can see the benefit for the SNDB. I have personally noticed that numbers can be entered with a DIFFERENT plate positions and the SNDB took the information. Now if we go one step further and someone wanted to enter false information and start adding Sheets, SNRs, Radars, Ladders, solids you name it mathematically one could give the illusion that all these notes are in existence when in fact they aren’t. I have voiced my concern over these points many times on the site (and not making any friends along the way) yet publically nobody has mentioned any concerns over these points. I have said it before and will say it again that unless ALL information entered can be viewed by ALL members (not just a select few) their can be no confidence in the SNDB and for this reason I have personally excluded myself from participating in the SNDB as I believe even access to ALL info is a must to keep people in line and honest about what they post.

Having a select few control the information is a conflict of interest unless of course the people who access all the info from the SNDB are not active and regular sellers of Canadian Paper Money.

Am i the only one with these concerns?

Regards,
MG

We've already been over the access to data issue and I will not entertain further arguments about it.

As for integrity of the data entered, several mechanisms are in place to prevent many errors and deliberately invalid data, however, there is only so much that can be done. It is impossible to make the system perfect because for every rule you can identify, there are a hundred exceptions that we know about and hundreds more waiting to be discovered.

That said, upon analysis of the data which is done periodically by researchers including myself, errors become evident quickly and can be addressed on a case-by-case basis.

Should a situation arise where invalid data is being repeatedly input, this situation can be easily identified and addressed in a variety of manners depending on the severity of the situation, etc.

Either way, potentially invalid data ought not to be a concern for those individuals who are contributing data. It ought only be a concern for researchers, and so far, this concern is adequately addressed and easily dealt with.

Regarding your conflict of interest allegations, although I do from time to time sell notes, I do not consider myself a dealer to any degree, therefore any conflict of interest is minimal at best. Similarly for the other researchers involved. Similar arguments have been used to deny requests for information as well due to the requesters being known to be actively involved with selling notes.

So what's the big deal?

I personally really liked the highs and lows topics for each prefix, as prefixes were open for discussion and feel that we are losing something really valuable. After all this is supposed to be a forum right?

I may not be a researcher, but also feel that seeing whats really going on in every prefix is very informative to myself as a collector, and am quite disappointed that this info is available to a select few and not myself. What possible research can come of it, seeing as the black box mystery is now solved? The info in the SNDB can be a very valuable tool for anyone including collectors.

I have wanted to comment on this many times now, but everytime I'm about to the topic ends up locked.

I was hoping for comment other than BWJM but they are very much appreciated. Thank you BWJM.

Am i wrong or have i not seen  "researchers" activlly sell notes on 3 different sites? Doesn't sound very minimal to me.

I hope to hear from others on this before this thread is locked.  


Thank you
MG
 

The "Black Box Mystery" has not been solved. With every new prefix comes another mystery that we need to solve. We've got the general system worked out, but there are tons and tons of exceptions to it all over the place. We're not even sure what size of mega-sequences are being used by BAI for almost all of the $50s or $100s. That's just a single example.

As this "conflict of interest" issue still seems to be a concern, I don't really care who sells what where, so long as they're not using SNDB data to do it. If they are, they know that this is not permitted and should they get caught, they will lose access to this data. So it is in their best interests to not let their selling activities interfere with their research. Of course, should anyone have a specific concern about a specific individual, you are more than welcome to send me a PM with details so I can look into the matter.

Regarding discussions about specific prefixes, etc, this is not at all curtailed. I created a new "Serial Number Database" for any threads directly related to the SNDB. Furthermore, there always has been and there continues to be a "Canadian Journey Series Notes" forum where discussions about specific threads can go. In fact, this is where such discussions should always have gone. The H/L forums that have since been removed were only for reporting new numbers for the lists. Pretty much anyone here on this site should know that I have moved numerous discussions out of the H/L forums and into a more appropriate forum. In that regard, nothing has changed. Want to talk about APM being a short prefix? Go right ahead!

I think the issue with this SNDB obviously has opinions for and against... for whatever reasons.  At this point I personally don't care either way.....if you don't feel you benefit from it ...DON'T USE IT ....if you think it benefits you, and you don't care about not having access to the data ....go enter what you want...
otherwise this topic becomes so repetitive that it's boring to read about..

FRIEDSQUID

Before anyone else accuses me of having "something to hide", I'll proactively disclose that I've removed several posts from this thread that added no value whatsoever to the discussion. The people involved have received the messages loud and clear (I expect), so there is no reason to keep them here.

Now, if anyone has anything constructive to post, I would welcome your contributions.

I think the surest way to discourage people from volunteering for this cause (or any related volunteer drivin cause) is to harp on them about how they are going about it. Constructive suggestions are another thing alltogether.

It would be nice to see more people willing to devote their efforts to the better of the hobby without expecting a payoff. I can name a few people who do this already, and they receive little thanks or recognition.

Regards,
H

I don't know if my comments will be seen as constructive, but here goes nuthin.

Anyone who plans to enter false data into the SNDB will be caught and should have their privileges to use the SNDB revoked.  I cannot see any benefit to letting a person like that keep their access privileges.

I believe that opening up the database to any one who wants to see the data will just encourage more false reporting.

Researchers and sellers are not two mutually exclusive groups of people.  Paper money collecting by its very nature creates a conflict of interest in everyone who partakes in it.  Bias is everywhere.  Show me someone who is unbiased.  The people who know the most about paper money tend to be the people who have the most paper money.  It's not a riddle, it's just a simple fact.  You need to access paper money to study it and research it.  Accessing paper money means you will occasionally come across something interesting, something special, something potentially valuable. For example, while I was exchanging notes to obtain new ones to use for my position number data collection studies, I came across a $5 note, AOY 5000000.  Nice number, and worth much more than face value according to the Charlton catalogue.  Should I have put this note back into circulation to maintain my integrity as a researcher?  Was I wrong to sell this note to someone who wanted it more than I did?  I'd like to hear some specific reasons why researchers should not be allowed to be sellers.  I'm not interested in hearing about paranoia and distrust and this whole tired argument about certain members who have privileged access to the data in the SNDB having something to hide.

I'm not tired of the discussion, I'm just tired of the weak arguments being used to indirectly point fingers at people like BWJM and myself, as though we've done something wrong.  After two years of banging the drum about position numbers, finally someone listens, and this is the reaction I get? Information has to come from somewhere, it doesn't just write itself.  I didn't ascend a mountain and have the solution of the black box mystery handed to me by God.  I did the work, I found the answers, and I shared them.  If that makes me a bad person, let me know.  Feel free to look the other way next time I share some information!  And don't even think about buying a note from me because I might be making profits from knowledge, and I'll use the profits to fund more research, creating more knowledge and more profits for myself.    OMG, I just figured out how to take over the world! 

OMG, I just figured out how to take over the world! 

Why bother....it's all over in 2012

Why bother....it's all over in 2012

I know, that's why I stopped flossing years ago