Old trick flea market sellers use when buying paper money.

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I've noticed at quite a few flea markets, vendors selling or buying old Cdn. paper, will always pull out a very outdated Canadian Gov't Paper Money book (sometimes 5-7 years out of date) when buying from a customer, yet always have the most up to date catalog (one year to current issue/editions) when selling to somebody. That way, they can buy notes way under market value, yet the vendor sells their notes at most current prices. Most casual customers selling their notes may not realize that the catalog they are seeing is outdated and not getting fair market value. Just an observation.

Well, dealers have to buy notes below market value to be able to sell profitably to buyers like us at market value, right?  Am I missing something? 

Well, dealers have to buy notes below market value to be able to sell profitably to buyers like us at market value, right?  Am I missing something? 

Nothing I guess if you don't have an issue being deliberately deceitful.

MG

Well, dealers have to buy notes below market value to be able to sell profitably to buyers like us at market value, right?  Am I missing something? 

It is true that a dealer has to buy notes cheaper and sell them higher price to make a profit ...that is pretty well known....BUT
to deliberately deceive a person by using outdated material is a great way to piss someone off and lose any creditably that dealer would have.   (if he even has any)...I know I sure wouldn't let it slide.   And you think this method is fine

Without trying to suggest what mmars may have meant, he certainly did not say that he found the practice acceptable.

From my perspective, I agree that it is not entirely honest, but does it surprise anyone that there are a few dealers doing this? (Note: we're talking about a small fraction of dealers here and this should not be taken to represent all dealers or even a majority).

Without trying to suggest what mmars may have meant, he certainly did not say that he found the practice acceptable.

Nor did he say he found it unacceptable either....I think we should let people speak for themselves....so we really know what they mean....don't you?

I explicitly said I was not trying to suggest what mmars meant. I simply said he didn't say something that you seem to have been suggesting that he did say. How about you read what people write before jumping to conclusions?

I guess it would be much more acceptable for the dealer to buy using the Buying Price guide and to sell using the latest Charlton, hmm?  Prices in the buying guide are well below the Charlton values.

The fact remains that dealers can't make any profits if they are buying at the same prices at which they are selling.  The fact of the matter is that dealers don't have to tell clients anything about what their notes are worth.  It's up to the client to do their homework to find out their notes' true worth and decide on a price at which they would sell.  The dealer's job is to say "This is what I'll offer you for your notes."

I guess it would be much more acceptable for the dealer to buy using the Buying Price guide

So what exactly is the Buying Price Guide....I have never heard of it, or seen one.
Can you please explain. THX

I believe that Charlton has a Canadian coin buyers guide which includes Canadian banknotes, and the prices are rock bottom. They have an issue that comes out each year as well as the Canadian coin guide, and the banknote guide and can be found at every bookstore. There are no insert ranges, etc... The prices are very basic for each series, thus being a gold mine for a buyer to use as reference to buy notes from an unknowledgeble seller. I personally would not feel comfortable buying rare/valuable notes from someone at those prices, but it's there.

And since we are on the topic of flea market sellers... Without saying any names I had one seller try to sell me an UNC 1969 E/V $20 a few years ago as a replacement for $900 without the asterick. When I mentioned the fact the asterick was not there, he told me that not all replacements have astericks. 

I have seen these guides. Scarcer Dominion notes that catalog at $400 or so may be listed to be purchased at $50. So use of a 7 year old catalog by the dealer may be to the seller's advantage than use of one of these dealer's guides. The prices are so ridiculously low that one would wonder if dealers are ever successful at buying at those prices.

Dealers BUY their stuff? lol. I thought they were getting it all for free.

I saw a "dealer's catalogue" that listed all the prices for notes that dealers would pay for notes and for the 1935 series, it went something like this:

$1: $25.00
$2: $45.00
$5: $90.00
$10: $125.00
$20: $175.00
$25: $300.00
etc

I'm not even joking.

1954 and newer everything was pretty much face value.

Most of the time when you show a banknote to a dealer, he would look at it and find a flaw that would make you think it's worthless. "This note has been pressed" - "There seem to be a tear at the top" - "There is no demand for these" and then look away.

One time I remember showing a note to a dealer and specifying that I only want his opinion and that's it's not for sale. He graded the note as "VF+".

The next day I try to trade it to the same place, different person. He takes out the magnifying glass and all, I get a VG-10 lol.

On the flipside, I've had buyers tell me that a note with two small creases is EF at best.    And then there are the buyers who want Gem Unc notes but want to pay an AU price *sigh*.

Let's face it, everyone tries to get the best deal possible whether they are the buyer or the seller.  If you know the tricks the other side is using, you'll be fine.

This one seller was trying to sell me a circulated note for more than "UNC". His argument was that the note was "not GEM UNC" but more than UNC. His version of an 'EF' was what's really a weak VF.

I hate Gem/Choice/whatever UNC. To me there is only one UNC, a perfect note. Anything less would go between AU and AU+. Back in my childhood, we didn't even have AU. A note that's lightly flawed that's not perfect would be an EF. Buying sure was heaven back then compared to all the overgrading we have now. Too bad I was just a kid with little cash.

This one seller was trying to sell me a circulated note for more than "UNC". His argument was that the note was "not GEM UNC" but more than UNC. His version of an 'EF' was what's really a weak VF.

I hate Gem/Choice/whatever UNC. To me there is only one UNC, a perfect note. Anything less would go between AU and AU+. Back in my childhood, we didn't even have AU. A note that's lightly flawed that's not perfect would be an EF. Buying sure was heaven back then compared to all the overgrading we have now. Too bad I was just a kid with little cash.

I think you just proved what I said in my previous post.    Even Charlton no longer uses your system of Unc = perfect.  And Charlton is merely playing catch-up with reality.  For years when there was one Unc grade, a number of dealers used terms like Choice and Gem.  The majority of notes issued are not perfect, so I think there's good reason to allow imperfection and different levels of Unc in notes that never circulated.  The market will dictate what each level of Unc is worth.  Everyone who was a collector 10 or more years ago can relate to how hugely underpriced a lot of stuff was.  Unfortunately, to continue collecting in the present, one has to let go of the past.