1870 $1 bill - low grade, how low?

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I think it is safe to say that by the time these notes were detected to be counterfit, they would have been destroyed unless they already had some sort of collector value to them.

People never throw out money, even if it is hopelessly bad, always hoping it will miraculously turn into cash.  That's why there are so many Confederate notes surviving after almost 150 years.  And Colonial and International Bank notes from this side of the border, and counterfeit Dominion notes too.

I have to agree with Bob and go against the "professional currency dealer" in this case.  Opinions are great, even professional ones, but Bob has hard evidence 

Art_1_Paper, you should ask for money back and if they still give you the run around send it to a TPG, like BCS and have them provided you with a professional 'independent' opinion to whether it's counterfeit.  i think all TPG have some guarantee about notes being genuine.

Hopefully you have a email from the vendor saying it's 'genuine'. 

As for a value I think the contemporary counterfeit might be in the range of $50-$100 - only my opinion.  I have an original and counterfeit $2 1878 and they look pretty neat side by side.  I paid $150 for the counterfeit about 20 years ago - which was probably too much.

I've provided a link to an enlarged scan of the left-hand side of a genuine note for comparison purposes. My note is a Montreal (not Toronto) issue and that's why the serial number is in blue rather than red. The font style on the genuine note is clearly different and superior. However, the signatures on the counterfeit note conform very closely indeed with the genuine signatures.

The counterfeit note is of "commendable" quality in my opinion and it would be interesting to determine how exactly it was manufactured. I presume it is some sort of photographic reproduction? It is not necessarily a contemporary counterfeit as it could possibly have been made in more recent times to deceive collectors(?) It's still an interesting piece and not totally devoid of value but if it was offered in a public auction as what it is, i.e., a copy, I don't think it would sell for more than $100.

http://img.villagephotos.com/imageview.aspx?i=26010576

Ottawa:  Regarding the production of the counterfeit, I do not believe it is either photographic or modern, but that it came from an engraved plate in the 1870s.  I believe I know who the counterfeiter was (and who nailed him!), and I can show that the plate existed in two states and the reasons why this is so.  A short paper for CPMS is likely to come out of this so I'll let it go at that for now.

Ottawa:  Regarding the production of the counterfeit, I do not believe it is either photographic or modern, but that it came from an engraved plate in the 1870s.  I believe I know who the counterfeiter was (and who nailed him!), and I can show that the plate existed in two states and the reasons why this is so.  A short paper for CPMS is likely to come out of this so I'll let it go at that for now.

That sounds very interesting, Bob. I wonder if it's possible that the counterfeiter surreptitiously used a genuine plate but had to add the red sheet numbers himself, or something like that. It seems to me that it's the poor style of the sheet number font that gives away the counterfeit note more than anything else. It's a pity that the scan of the counterfeit note is not a bit clearer thereby permitting a more microscopic analysis of the printed details.

Took the note to a dealer. He looked at it with a magnifying glass and said it's real. I looked at it and Cartier's eye is not just a "black dot". The bill is heavily worn however. Only a VG-8. Will get more opinions.