Dummies at the bank would not take legit $100 note.

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I went to my local TD Canada Trust to pay my line of credit and gave them a bunch of current Journey 20s and I had one older $100.  A lot of the tellers there seem quite young, the girl I was dealing with was maybe 20-21 years old. The note I gave her was a common series 1954 Beattie/Rasminski $100 note with a BJ prefix. Well she just looked at the note for quite sometime and then showed it to teller guy standing beside her and of course he was no older than her and they both said they have never seen this note before. Then she looked at it real close both back and front of the note and siad we can't accept this. I said why and she said since I haven't seen this note before I think it's counterfeit. I assured her it was real, but both the tellers refused to take the note unless they sent it away to be investigated before I'd get my $100 back. They looked at the note under the black light but I suspect they were looking for the typical "BANK OF CANADA" to be printed on the note under ultraviolet light, like what are found on the current Journey notes. Then they held the note up again to the light, again I suspect they were looking for a watermark or the security thread that runs through the note, like on the Journey series. Basically they were looking for security features found on the Journey notes that of course will not be present on the older series of notes like the 1954 and multi-colored notes.

Then I told her I would be back to show her the actual note in the Canadian Government Paper Money" catalog book. I came back 20 minutes later, showed her page 255 of the book with the same series 1954 $100 note with the Beattie/Rasminski signatures with the BJ prefix. Actually the note I was giving her was BJ6185027. The note was about VF condition, not worth keeping. But even after showing her the series 1954 notes in the book, plus the $100 notes in the series and older series notes. She still wouldn't take it. Then the younger teller guy who was standing beside her said, "this note looks counterfeit because you see the white boarder is not perfectly even around all the sides of the note, so this is a sure sign that the note could be counterfeit." Total idiot.  Just because the note is not perfectly centered, it's gotta be a counterfeit! Is sort of what he is saying. Actually the bottom boarder of the note was a little narrower than the top margin of the note. I told him some notes will be off like that depending on how the sheets were cut. I said it is quite common for a lot of notes to be off a bit and not perfectly centered. I pulled out a couple of CDN Tire 5 cent notes and showed him how unven those boarders were as an example. On was printed or cut a bit high, the other printed or cut a bit off to the left. Both the backs and fronts of the notes were off center. Again I couldn't convince them. I said even U.S. notes have the same problem. I said well feel the engraved printing on the boarders of the note and the fine background print. I said the dots should glow under UV light. Nope still wouldn't take the note. They also said the note didn't feel right that it was rougher. Well the note was circulated so it will feel rough, plus the paper formulation isn't the same as what's in the Journey notes. Yes the Journey notes feel smoother, but that's due to the printing and the type of paper used. Again, you can't compare an older series note's feel and texture to that of the new Journey note's feel. It would be like comparing our new polymer notes that come out next year with the Journey notes of previous years. Or "this Journey note doesn't feel right, it's not printed on plastic so it must be fake." Then finally another teller came over looked at the note and said it's real. To the amazement of the other two tellers they must have thought "how could this be?" But the guy said yeah I've seen lots of these notes, 20's 50's 100s and even a $1000 note. So after the other guy said it was real, they finally took it but reluctantly. They still want to send it off to see if it comes back or not. I even told the guy jokingly, I'll bet you a $100 right now that it's real, he said no it's o.k.

Another problem is with the older Journey series 5s and 10s. The older ones didn't have the foil strips or the watermarks or they foil security thread running through the note and they didn't have the broken "5" or the "10" on the front and back of the notes that line up when you hold the note up to the light and there are some slight design changes in the notes.  So again a lot of younger people who deal with money suspect that these notes are counterfeit notes because they lack the security features of the newer Journey 5 and 10 dollar notes.

I really think a lot of people are totally ignorant when it comes to our bank notes, especially the younger generation. These are people who work in stores and bank tellers. You give any 16 year old a dollar bill and they are totally messed up. I really think it would be a good idea for a lot of bank branches to get a copy of the Canadian Paper Money Catalog and educate their employees about older series of bank notes. For some reason a lot of younger people think that the Journey notes were the only currency design printed since Canada was formed as a country or notes used in the last 100 years or so. Being sarcastic here but in a way it seems like it at times. All I'm saying is, if people are handling or dealing with currency on a frequent basis, like a cashier or a bank clerk, they sould be better educated/informed about our paper money. They should be told that if they receive older Canadian money, it would most likely be from series 1937, 1954, 1970s multi-colored series, the bird series and older style $5/$10 Journey notes. Then they should be shown the notes in the catalog and be informed about the security features of the older notes. You can't expect very high tech security features of today's Journey notes with older style banknotes. I just though they were a bunch of dummies. Too bad all the older workers left for the day because they would remember the older notes and confirm that it was a real note. I'd probably have more people backing me up.

Wow - That's quite the ordeal. I probably would have asked to speak with the manager at some point during that conversation. I can understand the young tellers not having seen the notes before, but you're right, they should have been trained more thoroughly.

That said, from a counterfeit detection perspective, they certainly wouldn't let an older fake note pass. The new notes, I wouldn't be so sure though! lol

a good idea for a lot of bank branches to get a copy of the Canadian Paper Money Catalog and educate their employees about older series of bank notes.

Yessir! 100%

younger teller guy who was standing beside her said, "this note looks counterfeit because you see the white boarder is not perfectly even around all the sides of the note

I guess every ones a expert once your a Teller 

well its not an uncommon occurrence for people to think pre-security notes are counterfeits too.

However I know that asides from the journey series, banks do not train their tellers to examine notes.

Good grief, Charlie Brown!  I remember being at McDonald's some time ago and I saw a pamphlet/poster near the cash with pictures of older series of notes.  The cashiers at McDonald's must get better training in recognizing older paper money than bank tellers!

I'm not surprised at your experience at the bank.

I run a small restaurant.  A few of the staff know I collect coins and bills and will bring items from the till to my attention. Yesterday, the server asked me if we accept bills with a king on them. I was very interested because that would be a bill from the 30's. I was a little surprised when she handed me a newer American $20. I told her it was from the States and she said she knew that. I said they didn't have a king and she said they did. I told her they had presidents. Her answer was that they used presidents when the king was out of the country.

This particular person is in her third year of university.

Yesterday, the server asked me if we accept bills with a king on them. I was very interested because that would be a bill from the 30's. I was a little surprised when she handed me a newer American $20. I told her it was from the States and she said she knew that. I said they didn't have a king and she said they did. I told her they had presidents. Her answer was that they used presidents when the king was out of the country.

This particular person is in her third year of university.

Ask her who the current King of the United States is and to look that guy up on Wikipedia because you don't believe her.

PS: What university is she studying at so I know never to hire anyone from that school?

I don't think she'd know what Wikipedia is unless it's a Facebook app. I'm not sure which University she's attending (I never asked) but I know she's an Economics major. (Scary!)

Sort of related to the topic..... One of my staff brought me an "antique" penny (her words) she got in her tip jar. It was dated 1969.

PS: What university is she studying at so I know never to hire anyone from that school?

We got a lot more coming our way 

...Yesterday, the server asked me if we accept bills with a king on them. I was very interested because that would be a bill from the 30's. I was a little surprised when she handed me a newer American $20. I told her it was from the States and she said she knew that. I said they didn't have a king and she said they did. I told her they had presidents. Her answer was that they used presidents when the king was out of the country.

This particular person is in her third year of university.

Without a doubt, this is the funniest thing I heard in a long time!  However, when I finished laughing, I started weeping when it occurred to me that this young person is the product of our education system.

Have you ever tried depositing older notes via an ATM ? My guess is that they would be accepted at the counting facility without question. Try re-depositing a brick of Unc $5.00's with a teller -- talk about being made to feel like a money-launderer. ATM's never ask questions ... by-pass the teller and by-pass the b.s.

Have you ever tried depositing older notes via an ATM ? My guess is that they would be accepted at the counting facility without question.

Yup.  I did that with a 1988 $100 not too long ago.  First I tried spending it at several places but none of them would take pre-Journey series $100s anymore.   Just for fun I wrote all over the bill "Nobody loves me anymore, everybody thinks I am fake, no stores want me, despite me still being legal tender.  Please put me out of my misery".  I then deposited it through an ATM and that was that.

Have you ever tried depositing older notes via an ATM ? My guess is that they would be accepted at the counting facility without question. Try re-depositing a brick of Unc $5.00's with a teller -- talk about being made to feel like a money-launderer. ATM's never ask questions ... by-pass the teller and by-pass the b.s.

The ATM is a direct line to head office, so if they see you making too many cash deposits and withdrawals, they could red flag your account and force the branch to close it.  It happened to me.  I was basically told to take a hike because my frequent transactions appeared to be money laundering (their words, not mine).  Literally, I lost my account, Visa card, and all the cheques I paid to have printed became useless, and I was told to go to a competitor bank.  So be careful, the bank machine is not some anonymous substitute for a human being.  I would tend to agree that they will accept a lot more older notes as real "by default", but don't be surprised if they freeze your funds or even debit you if they think you deposited a counterfeit note at an ATM.  At least with a teller, you can negotiate.

I don't think she'd know what Wikipedia is unless it's a Facebook app. I'm not sure which University she's attending (I never asked) but I know she's an Economics major. (Scary!)

This only confirms the suspicions held by students of the praxeological school on how braindead one has to be to "understand" a course on mainstream "economics" as taught in any state-sanctioned university!

RE: BWJM:

I probably wouldn't hire anyone who's gotten past their third year in any university especially in any of the social sciences at least.  The most intelligent hardest-working employees I've ever had were usually high-school drop outs!

RE: BWJM:

I probably wouldn't hire anyone who's gotten past their third year in any university especially in any of the social sciences at least.  The most intelligent hardest-working employees I've ever had were usually high-school drop outs!

This is what surprises me... after 20 years of life, how can they not know things that I consider common knowledge? The recent banknotes for example. These aren't from the nineteenth century, they're 20 to 30 years old and would have been in circulation when these people were younger. Also, how is it that some of them don't even know how to use a phone book!?

I come across things like this almost daily. It was as if this generation was totally oblivious to everything around them until they had to go out to find a job.

They are not prepared for the real world at all.

The ATM is a direct line to head office, so if they see you making too many cash deposits and withdrawals, they could red flag your account and force the branch to close it.  It happened to me.  I was basically told to take a hike because my frequent transactions appeared to be money laundering (their words, not mine).  Literally, I lost my account, Visa card, and all the cheques I paid to have printed became useless, and I was told to go to a competitor bank.  So be careful, the bank machine is not some anonymous substitute for a human being.  I would tend to agree that they will accept a lot more older notes as real "by default", but don't be surprised if they freeze your funds or even debit you if they think you deposited a counterfeit note at an ATM.  At least with a teller, you can negotiate.

Wow. That something I might need to keep a eye on. Didn't they even listen to an explantion from you?

I happen to withdraw and deposit big cash amounts too. The withdrawals usually from the tellers and I never had a problem.

What are all these people going to do when we start using polymer notes

I think on a whole the average bank teller is truly unaware of what older Canadian banknotes look like and how they can tell if they are counterfeit or not, yet I have to say that the tellers at the branch I deal with are very well informed as to what is or is not a legit note...or an actual previous issue of the Bank of Canada.
I occasionally get calls when something strange comes in, although since the manager has been transferred I no longer have the access to the old notes because they are set aside and sent back....
I never had a problem in getting notes that were supposedly, absolutely, without discussion, to be kept and destroyed since the previous manager, a avid coin collector thought it was wrong to send back something that someone actually wanted to keep for generations to come...in their own personal collection...
As for the tellers at the branch, they enjoy the info I can share and actually ask questions out of shear interest.  A few months back one was so excited when I came in the front door because she thought she knew something that I won't know...
That the BOC was coming out with polymer notes.....LOL
Anyways I think instead of people complaining that their bank tellers don't know anything ...maybe educate them....I'm sure a lot will be interested to some degree.
Now if only my previous bank manager didn't transfer so far away.....I would be a regular at his branch.

FRIEDSQUID

What are all these people going to do when we start using polymer notes

Maybe a new set of specimen notes will be used to educate them perhaps =p

As a former TD employee, the procedure is to retain the note, and acept it as the deposit. Notify (or not) the client that it will be sent for verification.  If found to be counterfeit, then removed from account, and placed into hands of RCMP relevant information.  If legit, then no trouble at all.

The acting manager of the bank possibly may have not known the policy in which case training should occur and stat, from the top down in the bank on issues such as these.

They are to NOT give it back to the client.  For, knowingly passing on and allowing a real counterfeit note to circulate (which is what would happen if they banks deny acceptance), would be what the banks would be guilty of, thus making it such that they would be breaking the law, indirectly through lack of action (by not retaining the note).

I think on a whole the average bank teller is truly unaware of what older Canadian banknotes look like and how they can tell if they are counterfeit or not

Even *managers* can be clueless.  I had a counterfeit 2001 $10 passed to me by a teller at my credit union.  This was before 2004 $10s were in circulation, so it was even a current note.  It was a horrible inkjet job, on plain office paper.  No intaglio or embossing, of course.  The microprint was illegible.  The ink was running in a few places where it had been wet.  I told the teller that the bill was bad, and to please give me another.  She actually *argued* with me, insisting that it was genuine.  I asked for the manager and she *was* the manager.  Finally after making a big enough stink about it she agreed to replace it for me, but she put the counterfeit $10 back in the drawer to give out to another customer.

When I got home I googled the serial number of the bad bill (I had copied it down in the credit union) and sure enough got right to a news story about an amateur counterfeit operation that was busted for printing notes with the same serial number.

Went to grocery store yesterday and gave the cashier 2 1971 nickel dollars.
Before they were even out of my hand she barked " We don't take those".
I explained to her they were legal tender and showed her a pocketful of similar coins.
She explained that their bank , CIBC, will not accept them. I told her that is where i got them 30 minutes ago. i said let me talk to the manager . the manager comes over and says that the bank will not accept them.  I was up against 2 very stubborn people and decided that it was not worth the arguement and the frustration to pursue the matter.
 

I think it funny how my TD branch got two dozen BU nickel dollars, still in their individual cardboard holders, and gladly sold them to me at face value. I just hope they could hold a few 'old' banknotes for me next time I visit.

I think it funny how my TD branch got two dozen BU nickel dollars, still in their individual cardboard holders, and gladly sold them to me at face value. I just hope they could hold a few 'old' banknotes for me next time I visit.

My branch does the same...they claim they cannot ship Nickel dollars or halves out unless the have atleast a roll so they love when I take them so they can get rid of them, otherwise they seem to have to hang onto them and they are always in the way.
I get my daughter to use them at the school cafeteria. One day she traded a bunch of them to friends so they all paid for their lunches with dollar pieces.  The old lady at the cash said  it reminded her of the old days when the dollars pieces were nice and shiney and not crappy looking like the loonies.....
No problem in getting rid of them there...
Maybe next week we will try getting rid of all of the 50 cent pieces....atleast she knows that they are real and not fake....

That sounds like quite a story! I can't even say that I've been through that type of ordeal. Honestly, if the teller was educated and up to par with her work, she would know that it was a legitimate bill. I suppose some people are just so unreasonable. Anyway, I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

Honestly, if the teller was educated and up to par with her work, she would know that it was a legitimate bill.

Are we assuming that all tellers are female, or that male tellers are the educated ones?

...I thought we were all just assuming that all young people are morons...

Sometimes if I spend a $100 bill, a lot of places rely on those stupid counterfeit markers that they run across the bill. They don't look for any other security features, just rely on the marker. Anyway, when they give me back my change, I say, hey, how do I know the bills you are giving me are legit? Maybe I better check them out with your marker. Then they get annoyed and say, they are real. But it's so funny that it's a one way street. They suspect any note you give them, but if you act the same way, they don't understand your problem?