Detained by Police for using crisp 2001 Journey $10

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Yup, you read correctly. 

I had a bunch of original Journey $5 and $10 notes in an envelope I forgot about.  I didn't need them so in my wallet they went.

I went to a pharmacy to buy some seasonal chocolates they had on sale, and once at the cash pulled out a 2001 $10, and thought nothing of it.

The cashier looked at it, baffled.  "Uh, you do know this is supposed to have a metallic strip, right?"

Me:  "The current ones do.  This is the original issue and these didn't.  There's nothing wrong with it."

Her:  "It doesn't look right to me."  She then gets other cashiers to look at it, they too in equal confusion.

I re-iterate that these are older ones pre-security update.  The cashier then asks me if I had "real" money.  While I did, I said no.  She then suspended my transaction and the head cashier/manager called the police.

10-15 minutes passes and I'm just standing there, other customers looking at me as if I was Charles Manson, or something.

Once the THREE cops arrive, I exchange with them that this is perfectly legitimate money.  I refused to give any other information about myself. 

(NEVER EVER talk to the Police unless you're being formally taken into custody; especially in Montreal.  They're a dirty, corrupt-as-sin police force.)

The officer inspects the $10 note, sees nothing wrong with it, and, from what I was able to hear, he commented that it was printed in 2003.

I was told to stand far from the cash.

Once all that was over, 40 minutes later, I strongly suggested to the store manager to educate her cashiers on the proper ways to detect a fake note, irrespective of its age.  Straight to her face, I also told her she lost a customer.

It just kills me how uneducated morons think they know everything.

I remember a year ago at a Second Cup, a convenience store owner nearby used a 2001 $10. The cashiers also thought it was fake and called it in - the guy was rightly upset, he told me he had gotten it in change from the store the other day. I was also trying to convince them the note was real.

I had a bunch of original Journey $5 and $10 notes in an envelope I forgot about.  I didn't need them so in my wallet they went.

Hey I wish you were in Toronto and somehow were able to contact me. I would have saved you 40 minutes by coming and picking up those bills in exchange for regular ones. I have been looking for a couple of them because the rendering of the buildings is better on them than on the ones with security feature.

:-(

This is a situation where there is no winner. You were trying to make an everyday type purchase with legitamate funds and you were held up because the clerk was unsure if the money was counterfeit.

However.. counterfeit currency affects us all. If I were the store owner I would've said that the clerk had done everything correctly. These bills were missing a basic security feature which most of the general public isn't aware that had been added after the fact of orginal issue. Secondly even though you insisted the money was legitamite, I have never known of someone who has tried to pass poor currency and was called on it, to simply say "no you're right these are counterfeit.. I tried though"

They also did the right thing by calling the cops. Counterfeit money is used by criminal organizations and anyone using what could be suspected as large amounts of counterfeit funds is not only a criminal but would probably have ties to criminal organizations.  You had an envelope filled with them. I'm not sure of the condition of the notes but if they were very crisp it would probably stir up some concerns, as most people would not come across 11 year old notes that are missing security features and are in good condition. (would be highly suspect that they may have just come off the press of someone trying to counterfiet money - for someone that does not have the same level of education in canadian bank notes such as yourself.     
You make a great point that stores should be better equipped to asscertain if a note is fake or not but such education and equipment is at the cost of the business at hand and most places are not willing to incur that kind of cost.

Finally I have to point out that you were offered the option of making your purchase using other funds and refused. Since you are using legitamte funds this is definetly your right but the clerk and manager also must take necessary precautions that they aren't being robbed.

I am sorry that you had a poor shopping experience, and I certainly hope that you continue on with the tradition of purchasing seasonal chocolates..

I hope that if anything through this any otheres that take the time to read this thread (and my over zelous reply) is that if we are to use older and possibly questionable notes, it might be best to just take them to the bank.

Hey I wish you were in Toronto and somehow were able to contact me. I would have saved you 40 minutes by coming and picking up those bills in exchange for regular ones. I have been looking for a couple of them because the rendering of the buildings is better on them than on the ones with security feature.

:-(

Darn...sorry about that.  I ended depositing them in the ATM and got some $20's in return.  Since this was a TD machine, they were crisp AUZ Journeys

They also did the right thing by calling the cops. Counterfeit money is used by criminal organizations and anyone using what could be suspected as large amounts of counterfeit funds is not only a criminal but would probably have ties to criminal organizations.  You had an envelope filled with them.

I don't know about that. I feel as if they really over-reacted.  My take on Marc's post is that he gave his older notes to a young cashier -not Constable Dudley Doolittle from the RCMP (or even the manager for that matter).  It was like she enjoyed escalating Marc's attempt to purchase a sale item (chocolates) with legitimate money. 

And what type of criminal would use older issued currency?  In my mind, if criminals are going to go to the trouble of passing bad money, they'd copy a new $20 (or $100) hoping the clerks aren't yet familiar with all the security features.   They certainly wouldn't be using phoney money to purchase a box of chocolates.  i bet if Marc looked and talked like Forrest Gump they would have gift wrapped those chocolates! 

Three cops come racing to the drugstore to question a Canadian Paper Money collector using old $10 while the mayor and half the construction companies in Montreal charge the city $10,000,000 to fill a few potholes.  Am I missing something here?

Perhaps the biggest mistake Marc made was answering "no" when the cashier asked if he had any real money -he should have snapped back "YES! This IS real MONEY!"

These bills were missing a basic security feature which most of the general public isn't aware that had been added after the fact of orginal issue

Yes, but it wasn't a thousand years ago.  It was 7.

If I were the store owner I would've said that the clerk had done everything correctly.

I'm not slamming the 18-19 yo. cashier for not knowing the security features.  In all likelihood she received zero training in that.

They also did the right thing by calling the cops.

No, big over-reaction.

Counterfeit money is used by criminal organizations

Hmm, yes, we know that.

You had an envelope filled with them

No, I didn't.  I pulled out a $10 from my wallet.  It contained two other 2001 $10's and four 2002 $5's; plus one polymer $20.  Didn't feel like breaking a 20 for $7 purchase.

You make a great point that stores should be better equipped to asscertain if a note is fake or not but such education and equipment is at the cost of the business at hand and most places are not willing to incur that kind of cost.

The BoC has all kinds of material available at no charge.  Anything else is part of the cost of doing business.  If one is unwilling to assume that then they probably shouldn't be in business.

but the clerk and manager also must take necessary precautions that they aren't being robbed.

Those precautions entail properly knowing how to detect a fake note.  Not making the customer feel as if he has blood dripping from his hands.

and I certainly hope that you continue on with the tradition of purchasing seasonal chocolates

Oh don't worry about that.  Those Hershey cherry cream bells and marshmallow snowmen are like crack cocaine and will be the death of me. 

Three cops come racing to the drugstore to question a Canadian Paper Money collector using old $10 while the mayor and half the construction companies in Montreal charge the city $10,000,000 to fill a few potholes.  Am I missing something here?

Ha!  VERY well said. 

Well if you got arrested I would have been more than happy to post bail in $5 $10 $20 presecurity strip banknotes and maybe throw in a few birds as well....

Well if you got arrested I would have been more than happy to post bail in $5 $10 $20 presecurity strip banknotes and maybe throw in a few birds as well....

Well thanks...I'll have to keep that in mind.

Watch them tell you "Oh sorry, sir.  These are old bills not valid any more." 

Must say I certainly didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.. I was just thinking that if I had owned the store I would prefer that my employees err on the side of caution...

Glad in the end you did get to enjoy the chocolates...

Yeah that really sucks. Cashiers should be better trained on money... why didn't she use one of those lights surely they must have had one.  Should i have been in that situation i would have left my purchase on the counter and gone elsewhere and a letter to home office would have been sent. 

Yeah that really sucks. Cashiers should be better trained on money... why didn't she use one of those lights surely they must have had one.  Should i have been in that situation i would have left my purchase on the counter and gone elsewhere and a letter to home office would have been sent. 

There was no UV light or anything.  Pocket fluorescent (LEDs don't work) black lights can be had for < $10.  They were fixated on the lack of the hologram strip and nothing else.  Basically, no hologram strip = fake note.

A letter has been (snail) mailed to HQ.  I await my form letter response twlling me to "rest assured" that my comments were "sent to the appropriate department."

A very educational thread for sure.  Thank you for sharing this story.

In defense of businesses, they are not obligated to take a payment if they deem it is not in their best interest to do so.  And let's be very very honest here... given that >99% of cash transactions will be made with the most current forms of circulating currency, is it really sensible and practical to educate every cashier on every issue of Bank of Canada circulating legal tender?  Some businesses do, many do not.  Cash transactions are now much less common than even a few years ago.  Naturally, the many "experts" in the collecting field are going to be biased and think that everyone should know how to recognize and authenticate older series of notes.  Even with the information available, it's not a simple process to get someone who doesn't know anything about old paper money to make a decision.  And let's face it... most cashiers are not going to be cashiers 30 years from now, and every mistake comes out of their own pockets.  If I'm a cashier making $10 per hour and I get dinged for accepting a fake $10 bill, that's a costly problem.

The protocol used by this particular pharmacy was strict but realistic.  We don't have the testimony of the cashier or store manager, so it would be unfair to say that they acted inappropriately.  At the end of the day, if you attempt to redeem an older bill and the businessperson refuses, don't make a scene, and offer to use another form of payment (like a debit card).  Ditto could be said if you brought your jar of pennies and wanted to use that to pay.  If there's a line of customers behind you, it doesn't matter if you're the King of Norway.  Pay, or get out of the way.  You can threaten the manager by telling that person they lost a customer, but they probably lost many other transactions by having staff tied up because of you insisting on getting your way.  Like the saying goes, "Righteousness, integrity, and $1.50 will get you a coffee at Tim Hortons."

I hope that if anything through this any otheres that take the time to read this thread (and my over zelous reply) is that if we are to use older and possibly questionable notes, it might be best to just take them to the bank.

Even better than the bank would be a c@sino.  Banks are supposed to be good at handling older currency, but I seem to recall someone saying they lost $100 when they turned in an old note and the bank subsequently determined the note to be fake, and their account was debited.  What's even worse about this situation is that the bank does not have to give back the note to you, so the evidence needed in defending yourself is gone.  At least at a c@sino, they don't know who you are, so once they exchange your money, you're whole.  It's up to you, though, to make sure you walk out of there whole. 

Hey Marc. Can I know where was it ? If you don't to tell everyone you can just PM me if you want also. Thanks.

is it really sensible and practical to educate every cashier on every issue of Bank of Canada circulating legal tender?

Did I say or imply that cashiers today should be able to authenticate a 1937 note?

The protocol used by this particular pharmacy was strict but realistic.  We don't have the testimony of the cashier or store manager, so it would be unfair to say that they acted inappropriately.  At the end of the day, if you attempt to redeem an older bill and the businessperson refuses, don't make a scene, and offer to use another form of payment (like a debit card).  Ditto could be said if you brought your jar of pennies and wanted to use that to pay.  If there's a line of customers behind you, it doesn't matter if you're the King of Norway.  Pay, or get out of the way.

You blew the whole thing 100x out of proportion.

You can threaten the manager by telling that person they lost a customer, but they probably lost many other transactions by having staff tied up because of you insisting on getting your way.

Thanks for making me sound like a complete monster.  Much appreciated.

OK, everyone... Let's take a deep breath there before continuing.

I'm fairly confident that nobody is trying to argue with anyone else.  I don't think anyone wants to make anyone else look like a monster.

Right, wrong or otherwise, I believe that everyone's objective is simply to share ideas and discuss the matter openly.

Granted, and I speak from experience here, it is very easy to misinterpret someone's words, or to have your words misinterpreted.

I caution everyone to think about what they write please and phrase things in such a way as to get your point across while minimizing the likelihood of a misunderstanding.  At the same time, when reading each others' words, please avoid interpreting them in a negative manner, as it is quite possible that that is not what the author meant.

Thank you!

A very educational thread for sure.  Thank you for sharing this story.

In defense of businesses, they are not obligated to take a payment if they deem it is not in their best interest to do so.  And let's be very very honest here... given that >99% of cash transactions will be made with the most current forms of circulating currency, is it really sensible and practical to educate every cashier on every issue of Bank of Canada circulating legal tender?  Some businesses do, many do not. 

It's been awhile but I believe Brent has it right.
This is an interesting subject.

mmars. I thought all retail in Canada had to accept all legal tender for debts,public or private.
Of course no business has to sell anyone anything,but if they agree to sell me X, are they not required to accept legal currency?
They may not be familiar with an older issue,but is that not their responsibility?

Of course we are splitting hairs now because if they will not take the note I present they are not agreeing to sell me anything.
The old chicken and egg analogy comes to mind.

In other words, I once posted here how I took a 1973 $1.00 note to a gas station in the very early 90's.The pimple faced 17 year old did not recognize it and we called the manager.
Fortunately for me he knew the note,although he was only in his twenties.

Would be a hoot to try that nowadays.Maybe I will!

I thought all retail in Canada had to accept all legal tender for debts,public or private.
Of course no business has to sell anyone anything,but if they agree to sell me X, are they not required to accept legal currency?
They may not be familiar with an older issue,but is that not their responsibility?

As outlined in the Currency Act, no business or individual is madated by law to accept any cut of circulating currency as a means to settle a debt.  "Legal Tender" just means the government guarantees to honor it.

Maybe you should go back to the same store with a 54 1000 bill....wonder if they think your part of a drug ring ...

I apologize if my comments were received as offensive.  I have a habit of jumping back and forth between saying things in general and stating them to a specific recipient, and that can lead to confusion.

I simply have a craving for chocolate covered bon bons ever since the start of this thread.... dammit.. I'm trying to lose weight here!!! Down 20 lbs... another 50 to go!...

Now lets start talking cash and less about food dangit!

Ohh by the way.. I'm always willing to "hug it out" if a conflict does occur.

I usually enjoy spending old money; I always ask at the bank what they have earmarked for return to the Bank of Canada.  I regularly get old ones and twos, sometimes even dollar coins (not loonies) and spend them.  I've also learned that if the person is under 25, I'm likely going to run into some confusion and push-back.  NEVER try to use old money if you are in a rush!  Most of the time the reaction is "COOL!" but sometimes it is "sorry sir, we cannot accept that".  I can understand with ones and twos, but a journey series 10?  That would be hard to not react to.