Note searching and returning notes to banks

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I'm wondering if people around here have actually had banks call them up and ask them about repeated cash withdrawals and deposits?

So far, I haven't been investigated or had anyone at the bank mention my activity, but I'm starting to wonder if my accounts could be flagged. I've been frequently withdrawing my $5,000/day limit at HSBC and $2,000/day limits at both CIBC and Scotiabank searching for notes, and always return them through the counter at the bank. I've mostly been using my line of credits to do this.

The thing is, I'm wondering if I should quit while I'm ahead. I haven't had any of my bank cards frozen yet, but I'm starting to worry if my accounts get flagged, losing my relationships with these banks would have some pretty serious consequences.

Is it a better strategy to stop the cycling of cash in/out through my accounts, and just go to the counter and ask for bill exchanges?

I know someone who ran into some trouble a while back.  They weren't quite doing that volume of cash in and out of their account, but it wasn't too far off.  They were using tellers exclusively, but they were visiting several branches.  I suspect they flew under the radar for the most part, except that one particular teller found a reason to cause a problem.  A note was logged on their profile and cash exchanges started to be denied for anything more than the most modest amounts.  This person managed to get the situation cleared up, but now restricts their activities to a single branch where the staff knows them well and what they're doing (ie: searching for particular kinds of notes, etc).

My advice, to be taken with a grain of salt, would be to scale it back a fair bit.  Assuming a short month of 20 business days, you're cycling through $1,000,000 at HSBC and $400,000 at both CIBC and Scotiabank.  Those kind of numbers going through your account each month will surely raise some red flags sooner or later, particularly at HSBC.  If you are on good terms with some of the tellers at your banks (eg: you're both on a first-name basis, not just another customer, etc), then maybe start chatting about what you're doing.   Get to know the rest of the tellers at your branch(es).  Get to know the manager who supervises the frontline area.  Have a talk with them to clear your activities and make sure it's OK.  If you can avoid having transactions run through your account (eg: straight cash exchange), that's better as it keeps the on-the-books cashflow down.  Avoid busy times at the branch, and when you do visit, come prepared and make things easy for the tellers.  Dress well, but I'm not talking business attire or anything... Just a level or two above classic "people of Walmart" calibre.  I could go on, but I'll assume you get the idea.

Good luck.

Have you talked to the manager or someone of equal authority at your bank branches and informed the bank in confidence of what you are doing?
As a customer there is nothing wrong with what you are doing and I bet someone who wants to retain your business could put a stop to the inquiries, if that's what you want.
On the other hand, the inquiries also a method to protect you from fraud, which is I also bet is one of the responses you would receive from any bank officer.

I'm far from operating on a first-name basis at branches of these 3 banks, but I do deal with high-level (i.e. above retail branch) account managers partly because of my professional/family relationships. That's part of how I was able to obtain such a high ATM cash withdrawal limit at these banks.

My activity used to be quite a bit lower (in the low 5 figures) every month, but since the polymer $20s came out, I had a lot of activity through the same accounts via ATMs (well in excess of 6 figures). I was never questioned by tellers when I went to re-deposit the cash at the counter, and I haven't had anyone call to scold me, or mention my activities as of yet. I mostly deal with branches in the financial district, and it seems tellers flinch less at the sight of large cash deposits.

What I guess I'm trying to get from the initial post, is whether members here have gotten the green light from banks to conduct this level of activity, or whether I should just not mention anything about the last 2 months of activity but bring it down a notch. What worries me a little bit is if someone's going to come knocking on my door suspecting me of money laundering - which would be a death sentence for the profession I'm in...   

I was getting a bit of questions at one bank and had no hassles ordering new bundles at another (even when I didn't have an account)...

I simply talked to an account manager and told them why I was interested in setting up an account. They had no problems and each time I go to a new teller I tell them exactly what I'm doing and why. So far I have had no problems at all and I'm doing similar withdrawals but I see the people in the bank at the teller booth.

I suppose my best advice would be to be transparent.. and I don't think you will have any issues..

Good luck and hope you get some good finds.

Shylo

I was talking to a friend who is in a retail business and he tells me that the bank charges him money to deposit a large amount of cash. I was rather surprised to hear that but then I think any bank would be able to accommodate cash transactions for a fee. I know that each bank has a treshold in terms of withdrawal limits at the teller i.e. at one bank any amount withdrawan over a $1000 will require a second approval and the money does not come out of their dispenser.

I wonder what would be the success rate in finding collectible notes in going through cash from bank machines?

I was talking to a friend who is in a retail business and he tells me that the bank charges him money to deposit a large amount of cash. I was rather surprised to hear that but then I think any bank would be able to accommodate cash transactions for a fee. I know that each bank has a treshold in terms of withdrawal limits at the teller i.e. at one bank any amount withdrawan over a $1000 will require a second approval and the money does not come out of their dispenser.

I wonder what would be the success rate in finding collectible notes in going through cash from bank machines?

Yes a few banks charge their commercial clients fees for depositing cash. This isn't to deter them from depositing, but rather I think it's because of the time/effort it takes to deal with commerical deposits. You're not talking about standard retail personal clients that deposit a few hundred here a few hundred there.... ive seen people in the commercial business lines that deposit thousands in twenties, tens, fives etc. A lot of the time they aren't even sorted!

As for withdrawal limits... it really depends on the withdrawal limit/authority of the specific teller. A seasoned veteran will definitely have more authority to withdraw a larger sum (without secondary authorization) than a newbie/trainee or part-time teller. This is mainly done to protect the bank from risks.

As for flagging... it most likely will happen if they are vigilant and notice some sort of pattern. If they notice you're constantly doing this then concerns such as money laundering could be an issue, in which case they are obliged to report anything they deem as suspicious or unusual to their anti-money laundering unit or FINTRAC. Most likely if a teller notices that you're constantly withdrawing and then a day or two later redepositing around the same amount it will be reported to their anti-money laundering unit/department first, where they will decide whether or not there is a case/reason to monitor your account, or escalate further

Here is the bottom line...once the bank flags you and FINTRAC is involved there is a 100% chance you will be toast. The bank (and I'm talking head office) no longer has any authority or option to be part of the process no matter how long you were a customer or how great a customer you were. They will set down a time limit (which is usually 6 months if your lucky) and you will be required, or should I say be forced to shut down ALL of your business with that bank. Personal accounts, business accounts, joint accounts, credit lines, mortgages, and any other investments they hold. The worst part is that mortgages will be called in and penalties on early withdraws are imposed. YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS.
I GUARANTEE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!   It is NO joke.

It looks like you really ramped up the money withdraws in the last little while. This I would be concerned about. Go at it in small increments and be patient because don’t kind yourself, they are watching and there’s nothing like being greeted by corporate security and several cop cars outside waiting to arrest you to get your heart going. True story and that’s just part of it. One suggestion I would have is to keep all separate accounts of your banknote note searches because most likely at some point in time all the banks you are dealing with will ask for records to prove that you really are just a crazy wacked out collector. I would also suggest you keep track of every note/Bundle/Bricks you go threw. This way you can provide statements and the notes you received which could make the difference between walking out of the bank on your own or in the back of a car. 

Regards,
MG

I experienced a similar story to the one BWJM shared in his 1st reply to this question.  I was taking out such small quantities of cash that I could hardly believe my ears when I was told directly by a branch manager that I was being flagged for "suspicious activity."   Although I was completely transparent with her about why I was withdrawing "large sums of money" (& when I say "large" I mean only $500 to $1500 in $10 which were large to me) she still looked at me like I was a good con with a great cover story.   Initially I wanted to stop dealing with this bank but I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of starting a new branch, losing my status & free services that my loyalty had gained.  Instead I just toned down my activity and started dealing with the one branch as suggested (& they assured me I was no longer being flagged).   Since then, I've made a point of getting to know the branch staff better.  However, I still feel like its quite a hassle to continue my humble searches with as little disruption as possible. 

Since I was going to the counters for exchanges of cash- I would suggest you not go that route but continue the way you are going now as you've not been hassled.  However, I doubt it would hurt much to speak to the branch manager if they don't already know you have a reason behind your cycling the kind of sums you've been searching.   I wouldn't get into too much detail (my manager's attention drifted pretty quickly when I tried to explain why I collect paper money LOL) so just keep your explanation simple. Good luck!

I got flagged by Scotiabank for just a couple dozen transactions worth a few thousand dollars, and they called me a money launderer and closed all of my accounts.  So, yeah, if I was you, I'd start worrying!

Sage advice given around here.

I think it's more prudent if I just keep my bill searches to one bank, and that they're not as frequent. I did have bad experiences with TD in the past, where they said I was making too many large cheque deposits at the ATM and even though none of the cheques bounced, after that they insisted on holding all my cheques from that point forward. Not related to bill searching activity, but that was no fun.

I did sit down with my relationship manager at Scotiabank earlier today to talk about something else, and I just let her know about the activities on my account during December, and she said it shouldn't be a problem because there's a clear in/out trail, but that I should make any large deposits at the counter so that they know about it. In fact, she even told me I was eligible for an even larger increase to my bank card limits, and that I could have immediate access to even more funds from any cheques I deposit.

I got flagged by Scotiabank for just a couple dozen transactions worth a few thousand dollars, and they called me a money launderer and closed all of my accounts.  So, yeah, if I was you, I'd start worrying!

Identical situation at RBC...a nightmare come true...and the saga continues

FINTRAC.

The following link at FINTRAC website suggests that even the simplest of transactions could be reported as being suspicious.

http://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/publications/guide/Guide2/2-eng.asp#s6-3

This seems real scary.

So this raises a question in my mind. How do people who work with bricks do it? Are these people really bank employees and doing it as part of their job? Are these people doing it as a business with full knowledge by their financial institutions?

What you are doing is legal, and as long as the banks are OK with the time and effort required to provide you with service, there should be no problem.  If you want to continue, I would do the following:

1) have a good personal relationship with your bank branch management - build trust
2) be totally transparent - tell them exactly what you are doing and explain how you are collecting and why you are transacting this way

If they understand what you are doing, they should let you continue.  If you have a good relationship and flags are raised, they may warn you.

Others probably have more experience in this area, but that's my 2 cents.