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Topic: BC-56cT 1986 $5 Bonin-Thiessen Test Note  (Read 13474 times)
DaveK
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« on: February 08, 2013, 05:58:24 pm »

I have a 1986 $5 Bonin-Thiessen note - serial number GOG 0168401 (copy of the front attached).  It appears to fall under Cat. No. BC-56cT in the Charleton 25th edition which lists the market value as "not yet established".

Has a value now been established for these notes? 

My note has not been in circulation but there is a vertical crease running from Laurier's forehead to beside his right eye.  It appears to be a problem that occurred during manufacture of the paper.

If you could help me out with grading this note and a suggested market value, it would be much appreciated.

 
DaveK
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 06:22:37 pm »

The image did not upload with the original post.  Let's try again.
Seth
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2013, 07:39:56 pm »

Hi DaveK

AFAIK, no surviving copies of these notes have even been confirmed, much less  made it to market. That means that if you put it on the market, it will be your note that determines the market value.

Lucky you! I can't wait to see a pic.

Track your Canadian currency online!

http://www.whereswilly.com
DaveK
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 01:33:52 am »

Hi, Seth.

Attached is the image of the front of the note.  I will post a second message with an image of the back.
Wizard1
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 01:35:19 am »

Hi, Seth.

Attached is the image of the front of the note.  I will post a second message with an image of the back.

Hi DaveK. After you upload the picture you gotta copy and paste the generated code back into the message window inorder for it to show up.

DaveK
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 01:36:24 am »

Hi, Seth.

Sorry, I am struggling with the upload feature.  Attached is an image of the front.  I will post a second message with an image of the back.
DaveK
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 01:44:09 am »

{http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/143/19865dollarfrontlowres.jpg:http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/143/19865dollarfrontlowres.th.jpg}
DaveK
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 01:45:03 am »

{http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6250/19865dollarbacklowres.jpg:http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6250/19865dollarbacklowres.th.jpg}
Wizard1
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 01:46:17 am »

Nice note.... is that dark spot on the left (back picture) a stain? If there's a story behind how you got a hold of the note I'm sure a lot of us would be grateful to hear it!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 01:49:04 am by Wizard1 »

DaveK
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 01:52:39 am »

Hi, Wizard 1.

No, the spot is not on the note.  It must have been dust on the scanning bed.  Here is a different image.


{http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4574/19865dollarback.jpg:http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4574/19865dollarback.th.jpg}

I am new to collecting.  Could you confirm that this is a BC-56cT test note?
DaveK
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 01:58:42 am »

{http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9408/19865dollarbackrevised.jpg:http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9408/19865dollarbackrevised.th.jpg}

Hi, Wizard 1.

Hope you can see this image.

Thanks for the help.
Wizard1
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 02:00:30 am »

Yes it falls within the Test note range GOG0100000 to GOG0190000

Is there a story on how you acquired it?

DaveK
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 02:29:23 am »

Hi, Wizard 1.

My mother probably got it from the Royal Bank branch in Saint John, N.B. where she had her account.  If the teller gave her new bank notes when she cashed her cheques, she put some of them aside as an informal collection.  When she died four years ago, I found approximately 400 notes ($1, $2, $5 and $10), with dates from 1954 to 1989, all uncirculated.  I am doing an inventory now, using Chalton, 25 ed.

Any thoughts on the grade of this note?  As I mentioned in my first post, there is a vertical crease running from Laurier's forehead to beside his right eye.  You can probably see it in the image.  It appears to be a defect in the manufacture of the paper.

Thanks.
Weeles
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 07:39:44 am »

Hi DaveK,

 That's a great note you have there, you might even have a one of a kind.  :)

 In my opinion I would grade that note at a minimum of AU. If I was to see the note and see how bad that crease is, it could be increased to UNC. The note is in great shape otherwise. Keep in mind with my grading that I am just starting out but I am being taught how to grade from a very respectable bill collector.

 Are you looking to sell that note and start the market value in the charlton catalog? I wouldn't be able to get it for my collection though cause I would think it would go somewhat above my limits.    :'(   LOL

 Wayne.


Been collecting few bills for about 15 years but now getting into more serious collecting.

DaveK
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 08:04:07 am »

Thanks, Wayne.

I would like to sell it but I want to investigate the best way to bring it to market.  Perhaps taking it to a dealer for a formal grading would be a first step.
coinboy
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2013, 09:48:35 am »

What a great note to find and a classic way to find it as well.
I've been searching for this series for a long time and this is the first one i've seen anywhere.
I was wundering how long it would be before one showed up.
The crease in the note is hard to see in the scan, but these notes are notorius for ink blotches etc. could it be an ink issue?Can you see or feel a blemish in the paper?
As far as value, look in your Charlton and compare it to any of the other one of or rare notes of the bird $2 & $5.(HNB,AUG,H)or the few equally rare Multicolour series you will get a pretty good idea of value.
It should command a premium for being the first one found.
I personally would have this note professionally graded by a TPG.

coinsplus
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2013, 12:46:22 pm »

Congratulations on a rare find.  I would agree with coinboy and have this note professionally graded by a Third Party Grader.   This way, the grade of the note, condition, serial number, and "test note" would be authenticated.

Congrats again. 

  Smile from your heart.  ;D
DaveK
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2013, 12:52:38 pm »

Hi, Coinboy.

Thanks for the advice.  It certainly sounds like the way to go.

I can feel the crease.  It is 1.5 cm long running vertically in the center of the bill.  The areas above and below it are flat.  That makes me think it is something that happened during the manufacture of the paper and is not related to usage after the bill was printed.

I will take the bill to a professional for grading and will let you know how that worked out.

Thanks again for the help.
mmars
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 03:42:43 pm »

No, don't take your note to a "professional".  A chef or an accountant can't help you with this.  :D

You want a professional grader, i.e. a grading company to evaluate it and "slab" it.  I don't know if posting a link will get me in trouble here, but BCS is a very respected third-party grading company for high-grade notes.  Their website is:
Code: [Select]
http://www.banknotecertification.comIf you live near Kitchener, it would be even more worth your time to set up an in-person appointment.  But be sure to tell them what you have because they don't like surprises (like 1-of-a-kind notes, lol).

    No hay banda  
Rupiah
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« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2013, 07:02:08 pm »

Hi, Wizard 1.

As I mentioned in my first post, there is a vertical crease running from Laurier's forehead to beside his right eye. 


Interesting you mention that crease. I reported a similar crease in the new polymer 20 on the queen's forehead.

Here is a link to that thread with pictures:
http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=13466.msg58749#msg58749

In my situation the crease is very short (similar to yours) and with a very sharp edge. So far I have not heard any opinion on it from forum members.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Rupiah
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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2013, 07:17:48 pm »


Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Rupiah
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« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2013, 07:20:10 pm »



I can feel the crease.  It is 1.5 cm long running vertically in the center of the bill.  The areas above and below it are flat.  That makes me think it is something that happened during the manufacture of the paper and is not related to usage after the bill was printed.


If you find out what the professional grader tells you about the crease and share it that would be great.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
DaveK
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« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2013, 08:37:03 pm »

Thanks for the advice, mmars and Rupiah.

Rupiah, I have been thinking that the crease might have been a manufacturing problem with the Luminus polymer used in the test notes, similar to the issue you observed in the new $20 notes.

I will post the results of the certification.
tmort
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« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2013, 10:39:40 pm »

Look forward to seeing your results.



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coinboy
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2013, 01:31:07 pm »

Hi Dave,

Not sure where you live but if your in the Toronto area there is the Torex show next weekend in downtown TO,sometimes BCS is at the toronto shows, might save U the trip to K/W  torex also run an auction and you may be able to get an opinion of value direct from the auctioneer. Check this website for a link to the show info

JB-2007
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2013, 05:08:11 pm »

A note like this should get you at least $10,000. This is one of the only examples confirmed to-date. I am using the HNB Bonin-Thiessen note as reference priced at $11,500 in UNC. There are only 2 examples known of this note.
Rupiah
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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2013, 08:40:04 pm »

I will post the results of the certification.

Hi DaveK,

Here are some excerpts from a 1995 Montreal Gazette article regarding luminus paper and bank notes which might be of interest:


Quote
Representatives of Domtar Inc., the Montreal-based paper-maker, are packing their bags and heading to a major bank conference in Hong Kong next week, armed with a new product they are convinced will thwart the casual counterfeiter.

Quote
Casual counterfeiters are the people who use photocopiers and printers to produce bogus bills. Over the past decade the quality of such easily-obtained equipment has advanced


Quote
they now reproduce true colors on both sides of many types of paper.

Quote
So the object was to find something a photocopier cannot reproduce. Domtar's solution is a new paper called Luminus which looks like any ordinary banknote when held in your hand, but reveals images when held up to any light.

While the uniqueness of the prefix and serial number creates much excitement I was wondering if you are able to see any special watermarks (which may not be visible on standard paper notes) on this note when you hold it to light as indicated in the article?

Also are you able share your feelings about the note. Does it feel thicker? Can you actually see or feel  the lamination of paper-polymer-paper when viewed at the edge?

Thank you

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
DaveK
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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2013, 12:09:16 am »

Hi, Rupiah.

I am sending the note to BCS tomorrow.

In the interim, I have ten uncirculated 1986 $5 notes in addition to the G0G 0168401 note.  Comparing the ten notes to the subject note:
- I don't see any special watermarks on any of them using a strong light.
- When I hold each note over the light so Laurier is facing me and the top of the note is tilted at an angle towards me, I see two differences: (a) Laurier's coat is luminous on the subject note but less reflective on the other notes; and (b) I see the impression of the serial number below Laurier on the ten notes (i.e. the surface is raised on the front side because of the imprint of the serial number on the back side) but not on the subject note.
- When the notes are laid flat on the table, the subject note curls up on the ends more than the other notes.

The subject note does not feel thicker than the others but the surface feels different, like a subtle sensation of polymer: less pronounced than the distinct feel of polymer in the new $20 notes.

That's it for now.  I will post the BCS results when I get them.

Thanks for your help.
Rupiah
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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2013, 10:50:47 pm »

So this note is finally on the auction block coming to the show near you in Toronto.

Here is the link - starting price $4000

I am sure everyone will be watching.

http://www.icollector.com/1986-Bank-of-Canada-5-Test-Note_i16141696

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
wagnert89
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« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2018, 10:12:53 am »

Wow 20k in 2013! And it made it to unc60 by one of the strictist graders.  What a nice story. 
 

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