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Topic: 1971 $10 replacement note *VT??  (Read 17162 times)
london_guy
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« on: February 25, 2013, 10:13:56 pm »

I'm new to the note collecting and was wondering if I could get some advice from seasoned collectors.

I have a chance to buy a 1971 Lawson-Bouey replacement $10 bill with the prefix starting *VT.  I have heard that VT/VJ are a little harder to come buy, is this true?  The note is in great shape but has a very very slight crease down the middle which is very hard to see and also which looks like a ink smudge on the white outside border.  I know the crease brings down the value a bit but what about the smudge?

Any help would be greatly appreciated by the Rookie!  Thanks.
mmars
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 02:40:12 am »

Well, it looks like we blew our chance to help a new collector.  Not sure how I missed this post, but I did, though I wouldn't be alone.

*VT/*VJ were printed in smaller numbers than other replacement prefixes (or so we think!), but they are not really much scarcer.  Not much research into multicolour replacement notes has been done, quite frankly.  Lots of information in the Charlton catalogue about this subject, which is published every year, is actually quite old and not very authoritative.  In fact, I'm trying to kick start some research into the very subject and have not received much help.

Make sure there is an asterisk to the left of the prefix, otherwise it's not a replacement.  I know that sounds like a silly thing to say, but some new collectors are not familiar with that sort of thing.  They might think any note with a VT/VJ prefix is a replacement since there are non-replacement notes with the same prefix.  The asterisk, if present, is part of the prefix.

A very light fold down the middle means the note is not uncirculated, so don't pay an uncirculated price for it.  The ink smudge does not impact price unless we're talking about uncirculated notes.  The multicolour notes of the era were commonly seen with ink smudges.  Most people would grade any note with a middle fold as no better than EF condition, though if the fold is very light and the note is totally original, then it could be AU.  But most of the time, the middle fold looks light because the note is pressed, and some sellers try to pass off pressed notes like they are uncirculated with a big asking price.  Not naming names, but that's what some people do.

The market for multicolour series replacements is soft, though it can vary depending on the item.  Shop around and you may find a good deal.

    No hay banda  
london_guy
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 12:13:15 am »

Thanks a lot for getting back to me.  I haven't purchased the note yet and wanted to do some more research before I made any decisions.  I'm 100% sure that there is a * at the beginning of the prefix.  You said if the fold in the middle was light, it might be due to the note being pressed.  I can only assume that it would be done from the collector?  I saw the note at a antique shop and was already in a hard plastic case.  The only conclusion I could come to was maybe the previous owner was a collector himself.  The shop is asking $75 but again, not sure if that is a decent price which I know is hard for other collectors to give their input  without seeing it for themselves.  I'm definately not looking for a quick flip, but something to hold onto for years to come.

It's actually quite amazing the prices on ebay for the same note, lol.  I think a lot of those sellers are looking for a quick sell and a sucker to take it.  Call me a rookie because that is what I am but I'm not paying up to $1200 for the same note.
Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge, I've already learned lots from this site.
Weeles
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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 04:49:25 pm »

Hello,

 Hope you are going to enjoy note collecting, it is quite exciting sometimes.   :)

 For the *VT note you are looking at buying, prices range from VG-$40 to UNC-$675 and GEM UNC-$875. Now some asterisk notes are being faked, so you have to see if the asterisk looks proper, as well *VT notes are in the serial number range2044384-2196387...the upper range though is only showing the highest confirmed note discovered and maybe someone on this forum can confirm what the highest was actually printed at the time.

 Hope this helps you somewhat..  Wayne.

Been collecting few bills for about 15 years but now getting into more serious collecting.

walktothewater
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 05:28:27 pm »

Quote
I saw the note at a antique shop and was already in a hard plastic case.
Yes the smudge, the crease and the hard case will bring the price down on your note.  To be perfectly honest- its sounds like the note in question is a pressed VF+ which books at $80 (or more) so the $75 is almost a fair price except that many long term collectors might shy away from buying such a note in the future.  So, it depends on why you're buying this note.  If its just for show and you don't care whether it increases in value- then buy it. 

OR: If it's because you wish to value your collection down the road and you'd like the note to appreciate in value then you may wish to pass on this one.  Generally speaking hard cased notes are not usually the best note to collect because some kind of pressing occurs when they're kept in such a holder.  If you would like to see more collectible notes which can retain their book value (& may even appreciate in value) then I encourage you to attend a show or go to a coin/note shop in your area. Try to schmooze with some of the collectors there (& most of the dealers don't bite!) You can pick up a lot of a valuable info at these shows & you don't have to buy a thing (but you may be tempted to buy something).  Be open to other's opinions (depending on their years of experience) but don't be too gullible either  :-\  Good luck!

Shylo
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 09:20:06 pm »



OR: Try to schmooze with some of the collectors there (& most of the dealers don't bite!) You can pick up a lot of a valuable info at these shows & you don't have to buy a thing (but you may be tempted to buy something).  Be open to other's opinions (depending on their years of experience) but don't be too gullible either  :-\  Good luck!

Yes talk to other collectors and yes talk to dealers... they're in this hobby and most people like sharing information for sure... my only suggestion is if you're talking to a dealer perhaps you may want to buy something.... even small such as bill holders are an interesting trinket... Don't get me wrong... you certainly don't have to.... but it also let's the dealer know you value their information and time... It also develops a relationship between dealer and customer...

If I ever have questions with respects to certain coins or notes I have sometimes I take them to dealers and ask their opinion... many times I then buy something small that I need and because of that they have given me decent discounts up to 30-40% off regular price...

Just my two cents... (guess I'm going to have to upgrade that to a nickle soon)
london_guy
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 11:15:16 pm »

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and opinions.  I never would have thought that a hard plastic case could be pressing the note, guess I have a lot to learn, lol.  I'm not sure on what the serial # was and I was just in there today to see is it was still there, and it was.  Might pop in tomorrow to check.  I only wanted to purchase the note to start my collection and go from there.  I also wanted to see if the value would increase over time but by the sounds of it, it looks like it will not increase that much.
mmars
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 01:44:33 pm »

Pressing is not really such a bad thing.  I'm not sure storing a note flat in a book or a plastic case is going to do much or any harm.  That would be called dry pressing, and if a note is circulated, I don't think it's going to negatively impact value.  In fact, it's "original" notes that sell for discounts (except when buyers speculate on the upgrade potential of a note, then they might offer more).  Anyhow, a pressed-out fold can always be re-folded if you absolutely need that 3-D feel to your notes  ;DWet pressing is what gives a note an instantaneous loss of texture as embossing is lost in the process.

If you're only interested in the investment potential of paper money, you will be disappointed.  Notes tend to lose value over time against inflation.  Only the rarest stuff tends to keep its value as wealthy collectors are always looking for trophies, sort of how art collectors and Japanese businessmen are wanting to buy Van Gogh paintings.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 01:47:55 pm by mmars »

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Shylo
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 12:29:08 am »

If you want a VF *VT... you may be able to pick this one up a little cheaper...

http://auction.gatewestcoin.com/cgi-bin/viewItem.cgi?item-number=1030127&t=81450
london_guy
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 11:52:23 am »

Thanks for the link.  I checked it out and although there is no description, just a grade of what condition the note is in I would have to say the one i've seen looks to be in better condition.  I'm just a little nervous aboout buying notes on the internet.  I never know what their condition will be in when they arrive.
Shylo
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 01:38:07 pm »

I would say that the customer service end of things from this place isn't always top shelf... but that's just b/c the owner and some of the others that work in the back of the shop seriously lack any "people skills" what so ever.

Aside from that I deal with these guys a bit and in terms of integrity they are top shelf.

Anyways.. the note itself is a nice thing to look at... I really do like the multicolour series myself.

I think the one thing that you really want to know is if you will gain a whole lot of value from an item like this in your collection or not. In my opinion this hobby for most is one of joy but not one where you "make" lots of money in the appreciation of notes... most notes hardly appreciate above the rate of inflation so from an investment point of view it's never really that good. Purchase items you like for interest sake and that you can be hapy with..... that really is my best advice for you with this note and in general.

Good luck
venga50
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 03:46:40 pm »

I would say that the customer service end of things from this place isn't always top shelf... but that's just b/c the owner and some of the others that work in the back of the shop seriously lack any "people skills" what so ever.

From personal experience I can vouch for the accuracy of this statement.  A rather nasty argument developed between myself and this store over an eBay purchase that cost less than $30.  It was my first and last purchase from them, which is their loss because I have spent many thousands of $ on my collection since.

walktothewater
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 05:40:49 pm »

Quote
A rather nasty argument developed between myself and this store over an eBay purchase that cost less than $30.  It was my first and last purchase from them, which is their loss because I have spent many thousands of $ on my collection since.

Did he say "you stamp collectors are all the same!"??? >:(
How do they stay in business?  I had a similar experience which I tried to work out by phone.  When speaking to him re: the matter we were discussing it escalated out of control even though I tried (in vain) to contain things and smooth it over.  He called me all sorts of names (including a "stamp collector") & left nasty feedback and I've spent a small fortune on notes since. 

mmars
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 07:21:25 pm »

I didn't know it was within forum policy to allow assessments of specific numismatic businesses.

My only comment at this point is to say that the dealer in question is a high volume seller, probably Canada's largest, and they probably make lots of business with other dealers.  If you buy material from a supplier in volume, you're not likely to complain about problems with specific items.  Dealers don't make a habit out of attacking each other over what amounts to trifling issues.

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BWJM
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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 08:03:18 pm »

I think we're a little off-topic now anyway, but mmars is right.  It is not acceptable to carry on this sort of discussion.

Similar discussions occurred in the past and went too far, nearly causing legal action against this forum and a variety of forum members.  To avoid going down the same path again, it is impermissible to make negatively critical statements about specific persons, companies, etc.  There's a whole pile of grey area there, but it is desired to simply steer clear of the whole subject.

Let's keep things positive and make this an enjoyable place for everyone.  Thank you for your continued cooperation.

BWJM, F.O.N.A.
Life Member of CPMS, RCNA, ONA, ANA, IBNS, WCS.
President, IBNS Ontario Chapter.
Treasurer, Waterloo Coin Society.
Show Chair, Cambridge Coin Show.
Fellow of the Ontario Numismatic Association.
 

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