Author
Topic: Polymer $20.00 notes  (Read 6870 times)
tommyboy
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Paper Money is Fantastic!
« on: March 07, 2013, 09:22:05 am »

Last week I withdrew 10, banking machine -- $20 notes from the bank machine. Never paid any attention to them until today.
On the lower left hand side, under the clear strip, the note is cut/torn/miscut, whatever. It is about 1 inch long with the cut piece still attached. Serial # BIE 5665476.  Interesting stuff I thought. the note is crisp, Gem.

If that wasn't enought, the next two notes in my pile have the same cut with the pieces completely missing.
The serial numbers are from the same sheet no doubt at BIE 5665484  AND 5485.

I checked with a friend that fills the machines and the notes are discharged ? from the machine from the top of the note, not at the bottom. So...I think the banking machine did not tear this note?

Any comments from form members or has anybody seen this before?

{http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7175/20notesmiscut485.jpg:http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7175/20notesmiscut485.th.jpg}

TOMMYBOY
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 12:24:17 pm by BWJM »
mmars
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,352
  • money is gregarious
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 07:12:48 pm »

Consecutive notes don't come from the same sheet, they come from the same bundle.  Stacks of sheets are cut into bundles.

It's unusual to see new notes with damage, but notes can become damaged at any time during their life.

    No hay banda  
Dartviking
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 08:02:15 pm »

Nice (I think).........post a picture of one !!!
I am envisioning that you have a cutting error of some sort..........??
Dartviking
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 08:21:14 am »

Ah, the infamous "bite" mark.......looks like it may be damage.
tommyboy
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Paper Money is Fantastic!
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2013, 08:59:06 pm »

Has this "bite mark" been observed on other polymer notes?  I can say since the consecutive notes come in bundles, there is no more than three notes damaged in the cutting process. I have the notes before and after these numbers.
What I am trying to determine here is this unusal or highly unusal.......hence price for each note.
TOMMYBOY



C:\Users\TOMMYBOY\Pictures\#111  COINS READY FOR  EBAY\$ 20 NOTES MISCUT #485.jpg
friedsquid
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,876
  • CPMS 1593
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2013, 09:28:15 am »

Has this "bite mark" been observed on other polymer notes?  I can say since the consecutive notes come in bundles, there is no more than three notes damaged in the cutting process. I have the notes before and after these numbers.
What I am trying to determine here is this unusal or highly unusal.......hence price for each note.TOMMYBOY

I have seen damaged notes in new bundles/bricks similar to yours as well as missing pieces on other areas of the note. ie corner/top/side...
IMO the notes are only worth $20 and have no collector value..



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
Dean
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 686
  • GO LEAFS GO!
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2013, 11:11:37 am »

The note appears to have been torn in the bank machine or by a currency counter.  Polymer bills are resistant to tearing but once the edge is nicked, they tear like tissue paper...

The Charlton guide states that cutting errors apply to notes that are larger than their specified dimensions because any note could be made smaller after being issued. (p. 407, 24th ed.; 2012)


Have fun spending them...

Hope this helps,
Dean

Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2013, 06:00:40 pm »

While I think there is some merit in what everyone is saying I have always been curious about the process in which certain things happen. It may not always be possible to assign a cause to things but by process of elimination we can reduce the possibilities of certain things happening.

The cut in your note is rather unique because it progresses through three layers of films. The fact is that it is difficult to initiate a cut in a polymer note because the two layers provide different resistance in different directions. So try ripping the note with hands and it will not do so despite your valiant efforts.

Once the cut it made however it weakens certain portions of the films and the cut can progress in certain directions therefore easily tearing the note. So if you have a tear then it is easy to rip the note along the tear. There are certain inherent flaws that are related to production that will create such types of tears. For instance I have seen that a strong strike to the tactile dots results in a situation that will initiate a tear from the dot.

What is unique about your tear is that is goes through the polymer film. If the tear had started at one of the edges it would have difficult time progressing through the polymer film as it would provide some resistance.

Unless of course the shearing happened through the guillotine type of action or a cut was initiated with a scissor like device from the beginning till the end. In short the cut had to be made in one go and not progressive such as in ripping apart a small tear that had initiated.

Here is an offer for you. In the area that is cut, if you can see two plies of the polymer when looking at the face - as opposed to the edge) that are offset (one is a bit whitish without any printing) then I am willing to pay you $21 for the torn note and $20 for the other two consecutive notes if we can meet somewhere in Toronto to affect that transaction. (I would need all three notes)

Cheers :)

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
tommyboy
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Paper Money is Fantastic!
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 09:10:33 pm »

Thank you all for your comments. the detective in me is trying to find out the cause. The most probable cause is the "bite" discription. It is curious why it would effect three notes and no more. Also the bite or pinch at the bottom of the note is not a place where the ATM grabs the note for the exit of the machine.  As for price....I do not live in Ontario or near it. it would cost more in gas or postage to get them to you at $21.00. I would loose money. I will see what someone will say at the coin show in Montrteal, Nuphilex.
But I thank everyone for taking the time to respond. This why I like this hobby....the thrill of the hunt.
TOMMYBOY
CA_Banknotes
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2013, 09:32:01 pm »

I don't know why this is attracting attention?

It looks like a $20 with a missing piece, and nothing more to me. I've seen quite a few from ATMs with missing pieces. It seems that with any small nick or tear, if it catches onto anything then it tears a piece off easily.
friedsquid
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,876
  • CPMS 1593
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2013, 11:04:45 pm »

Quote
I don't know why this is attracting attention?

Neither do I...but then again maybe I'm missing something :)



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
tommyboy
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Paper Money is Fantastic!
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 04:48:07 pm »

Hi. Thank you for your comments.  The point is......education!  How many times have we missed something at a period in time saying, what's the big deal, only later --- sorry we did't pay addention to it.  This is not just a tear or bite out of a note, it is a bite, very evenly I might add, on a POLYMER NOTE. These notes a new and aren't suposed to tear easily while handling them are they. it was no big deal when the devils face was talked about was it. Oh I'm sorry, you warn't born then were you, I was, and missed the boat. So.....never overlook anything in numismatic material.
Thanks for all of the opinions. that is the end of it. Tommyboy
Dean
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 686
  • GO LEAFS GO!
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 06:48:32 pm »

  How many times have we missed something at a period in time saying, what's the big deal, only later --- sorry we didn't pay attention to it.   So.....never overlook anything in numismatic material.

I had a similar experience back a few years ago when I spoke to Ted Bailey about this Journey $10 bill that had a "missing circle"...Nobody had noticed it at the time.  He took it, showed it around to the other dealers, then soon after, there was interest in it.   Maybe I wasn't the first to see the missing circle, but I'd like to think so...  :)

Dean

Dean
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 686
  • GO LEAFS GO!
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 06:50:35 pm »

Sorry, I took another look at the picture...Is the white surface in the area of the tear part of the note?  If so, then it is much more interesting than previously thought...

Dean

mmars
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,352
  • money is gregarious
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2013, 07:48:59 pm »

Hey, wow, this type of error exists on older series notes too...

{http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3397/1973bite.jpg:http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3397/1973bite.th.jpg}

    No hay banda  
venga50
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2013, 09:00:16 pm »

Hey, wow, this type of error exists on older series notes too...

{http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3397/1973bite.jpg:http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3397/1973bite.th.jpg}

 :D

Well, however the "bite" was caused on this note, it might otherwise have had some value to someone born on March 23, 1985.

Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2013, 11:22:12 pm »

Hey, wow, this type of error exists on older series notes too...

{http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3397/1973bite.jpg:http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3397/1973bite.th.jpg}

Whoever bit into it should really see their dentist to fix those broken teeth. ;)

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 11:31:32 pm »

The point is......education!  How many times have we missed something at a period in time saying, what's the big deal, only later ---

Hey there are people like me who are totally with you. I have been studying polymer notes very carefully and I agree with you that there is something strange going on here.

But I do understand where others are coming from in terms of their perception of market value.

If you can please keep us posted if you find something interesting.

Regards

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
tommyboy
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Paper Money is Fantastic!
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2013, 09:20:46 pm »

DEAN.  The white in the missing bite area is just a blank piece of paper placed over the notes during scanning. Other wise the upper part of the scanner, that does 35 mm slides, shows up on the scanned item. thanks TOMMYBOY
 

Login with username, password and session length