What's so special about this note that commanded almost $600

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I came across this listing on the famous on-line auction site.

Item number: 181096543831

Perhaps I missed something but there were 5 bidders and it sold for almost $600. Maybe the banknote collector market is learning something from the performance of the stock market.

On the other hand this graded note at around $550 did not sell:

Item number: 181019520098

What's interesting for me is that the note that sold seems to have been a one off listing by someone that sells other non-numismatic things and the second one was listed buy a dealer.

I know I should put up my offset number note up for sale

I agree.  I am a little stumped by this.  There must be a reason - this is a massive premium.  I must be missing something completely here...

I was starring at the first note for 2 min and couldn't see anything... nothing at all... looks like a normal $20 to me....

While I realize I'm very new to this hobby all things considered ... I only at first feel a level of inadequacy not knowing what is so special about the note in question... followed by feelings of remorse that someone has paid such a sum for such a note.....

ohh dread!

that someone has paid such a sum for such a note.....

ohh dread!

It was not just one person but several bidders who were involved. That makes it even more interesting. I still feel that I am missing something about that note.

Hi guys, if you look carefully you'll see that the last 8s are not aligned properly. This is the error they are referring to. It could be speculated that because the polymers were recently released that there is more interest in acquiring 'errors' from this new series. As these are the first seen 'errors' it is not known whether or not they will be common, therefore some people might treat them as rare. If more show up then supply and demand dictates that the prices should drop due to increased supply, however conversely should no more examples of this type of 'error' surface then one would expect either the price to maintain or increase.

Furthermore would not be accurate to compare both notes as the same thing because the conditions (one is an au 58 and the other seems to be uncirculated )of both notes will definitely differ as well as the fact that these are two completely different types of errors. One is a wet ink offset while the other is seemingly a serial number error.

Hope this helps a little to understand the differences

I can't figure why some people give so much importance to and are ready to pay an hefty premium for a note with a simple printing variation, well within the normal process ... It's far off to be an real error...
Whereas a much much much better error note, less costly hasn't been sold...

If so, any note could bring an nice premium if you can find any variation, as minute it could be, from an "ideal" or "perfect" note...

It's eally anything and I think it's a shame for the legitimate error field. 

Individual listings on ebay prove little or nothing.  If you want to see if there's a real market for a particular kind of note, list some near-identical items and see how much they go for.  Now, understandably, copy-cat listings tend to sell for less if they are made soon after the initial listing because at least one bidder is eliminated from the pool of potential buyers.  I can't honestly believe that someone paying $600 for one of these notes will drop $600 on others each and every time they come up.  Furthermore, other potential bidders get scared off when they see certain items realizing high prices.  It creates a yo-yo effect in the short term... bidders stop bidding if they think they can't win, producing a low result.

But as I would dearly love to prove myself wrong, I have a note that I am willing to list.  In fact, I went through a number of polymer $20 notes and found no less than 8 notes with shifted digit errors.  For some strange reason, this "error" is very common on the new series of notes.

Yeah - that's not an error.  Serial #'s are rarely perfectly aligned.   I have 3 notes in my wallet right now.  Two have offset digits.  One is offset as much as the one in the listing.  Kinda makes me feel a little ill that someone paid $600 for this.

I share the sentiments expressed here.  This sort of thing is quite common.  Sure, it's not 100% exactly the way it should be, but is it really that big of a deal?  This numismatist does not think so.

Yes - caveat emptor is alive and well on ebay.  I just hope it's not some 17 year old kid making what he thinks is his first big buy.

It should be noted that the seller listed the note at 99 cents and bidding carried it up to $600.  Cannot fault the seller for what the bidders do to themselves.

Individual listings on ebay prove little or nothing.  ...  Furthermore, other potential bidders get scared off when they see certain items realizing high prices.  It creates a yo-yo effect in the short term...

-Yes I think the more dodgy listings we see the more buyers back off on buying online paper money

... I agree with how "much ado about nothing"

Kinda makes me feel a little ill that someone paid $600 for this.

It simply isn't good for the hobby because we:

... can't figure why some people give so much importance to and are ready to pay an hefty premium for a note with a simple printing variation, well within the normal process ... It's far off to be an real error... and I think it's a shame for the legitimate error field.

I believe it could also be the result of "shill bidding" (bidding by the seller from different ebay accounts) or bidding by 2 very novice "wanna-be" collectors who have a lot of change to spare.   I actually feel worse about the 2nd worse-case scenario, but I guess it could be true and I'm sure this will only have a "yo-yo" affect on the ebay market (as mmars suggests).   

Whatever the case may be we should see it as a "red flag" for a particular auction listing. 

We should be asking ourselves "would this listing pass the mustard at a live auction?" Would 2-3 collectors/dealers agree with the importance/rarity of this note?

Other problematic listings:
lightly printed right or left SN being touted as "errors" (& other minor printing variations)
regular numbered notes being dubbed as low numbered, rotators, repeaters & radars
regular prefixes being labelled short/rare prefixes or change-over prefixes
notes being passed off as "inserts" (typically falling a factor of 10X short of the established insert ranges)
Modified 1954 notes being dubbed as "Devil Faces"

If you are unsure about the validity of a listing on any online auction site you could always ask for advice on this forum

It should be noted that the seller listed the note at 99 cents and bidding carried it up to $600.  Cannot fault the seller for what the bidders do to themselves.

It was a very knowledgeable fraud as you can tell by the language in the listing.  Sorry, but I refuse to side with a seller because they've effectively and successfully duped somebody out of a large amount of money.  It's like the listings where someone has chopped up a sheet of 1973 one's and sell as errors.  You can tell exactly what they've done based on the S/N's.  I can tell you that when I see this, the seller very quickly gets an e-mail from me.  The listing goes poof and nobody gets burned.  It happens much more than you think.  I'm sure not everyone agrees with this, but I believe that sometimes there needs to be action taken in the name of integrity.

There is nothing technically fraudulent about the listing.  The shifted digits can be considered errors, and with both serial numbers affected, it's technically a double error, so the seller has not embellished anything.  I completely disagree that listings like these cause harm to the hobby.  People are free to buy whatever they want at whatever price they want, and telling them what they should or should not buy is completely self-serving.  What I find much more disconcerting is the vigilante mindset some people are exuding, thinking they have some kind of right to interfere with the selling activity of others.  I know I get the occasional message through eBay from whiny bidders telling me I'm not following catalogue pricing rules and other silliness like my insert notes are not in the current volume of the Charlton Bible.  But then there are also people who contact me to sell items to them privately, flouting eBay's rules in the process.  I guess rules are only for sellers since they are the ones paying all the fees.

I'm sure if this note had been PMG graded Unc 66 or higher, we wouldn't be having this argument.

The shifted digits can be considered errors, and with both serial numbers affected, it's technically a double error, so the seller has not embellished anything. 

Interesting.  So if you were a TPG you would grade and label this a double error and sell as such?  Just curious. 

TPGs don't sell their own notes.

BCS and PCGS don't acknowledge errors.

The point is, I don't have to believe the note in question is either an error or worth $600 for me to believe that the seller has a right to sell it and a buyer has the right to buy it at the price offered.  Remember, it takes two people to make a high result, so two different people placed bids of at least $577.  Nobody who starts this hobby comes in with expertise.  Everyone makes mistakes at first.  If someone blames everyone else for their mistakes, they will never learn personal responsibility and maybe they should consider taking up a less expensive hobby where they can't do much harm to themselves.

I agree with the points mmars has made... as a seller you make a listing... this person started the auction at $1... there already is an assumed risk the item will sell and the seller doesn't take a loss.

I don't think anyone can fault the seller... they listed an item and people bid on it... if it's an honest auction the seller has no effect on the final price. This means that there were at least two people willing to pay close to this dollar amount for an error.

I personally didn't think anyone here is blaming the seller for doing something wrong here.. The seller described the note... and put pictures up... the buyers had made the decision to place the bids.

I don't wish to speak for everyone, but I can say that for myself I was shocked to see that someone would pay so much for such a note. I truely feel sorry for them as I don't ever see them recouping the value from this note.

Granted I think I can say that we have all overpaid for notes at one point or another, I think it comes with the territory of this hobby... but an error like this leads me to suggest that the buyer was not at all well educated in this hobby (or perhaps it's just the opposite and they know a whole lot more that I can imagine) or has a very vast amount of money.

One post mentioned some sort of "boosting" tactics to up the price of an auction.. which is poor tactics, but in the end the buyer still is agreeing to a price.... There are worse online auctions out there... I've seen auctions where the price had been run up by "floor" bidders... I back out of the bidding at some point there are a few other bids by the "floor" then all of the sudden I have won the item...leads me to believe that the auction company was just looking to see the maximum they could extract from a customer.

Now I have minimal experience with ebay but I would say that if most people are trying to sell items through an online auction they have hear or would consider ebay as a very popular choice. Having said that I'm sure most items would pretty much go for fair market value with the exception of specialty pieces and the occasional "outlier" listing where the item is bid on by someone who gets "auction fever" or by someone who has deep pockets and isn't concerned with what fair market value is... they simply want said item...

For some strange reason, this "error" is very common on the new series of notes.

I have notes with all possible combinations of digits that are shifted and some in sequential order.

Maybe I should get into e-bay selling. 

I have notes with all possible combinations of digits that are shifted and some in sequential order.

Maybe I should get into e-bay selling. 

I mean all possible 0 to 9 in the last position. 

I have notes with all possible combinations of digits that are shifted and some in sequential order.

Maybe I should get into e-bay selling. 

Unfortunately, you'll be a little late to the party.

 I've just noticed a new bunch of bottom feeders have listed some notes with all the hyperbole and deception of the first listing.  Also, the same guy is back with a whole whack of new listings.  He has a 20 that is less offset than most of the bills in my wallet. His headline is "WOW CRAZY ERROR NOTE. YOU'LL NEVER SEE ONE LiKE THIS AGAIN - GUARANTEED!".  He's clearly gotten overly excited and is now just trolling for victims.

Just to top it off there is a listing with a 1986 $2 major cutting "error".  My favorite.  It's a CBK prefix of course.  He'll be getting a note.

What a bunch of tools.

 



 

Unfortunately, you'll be a little late to the party.

 

Darn. I knew I had to move fast on this one. 

Unfortunately, you'll be a little late to the party....

What a bunch of tools.

If you believe that each and every one of those new listings is going to produce a $500 result, you must have absolutely no faith in buyers to know better such that they require your intervention to protect them.  So sad.

It's at times like these that I wonder why I bother keeping my membership here.

This will be my last post on this, as this horse has been beaten pretty hard (I apologize for that).  I apologize MMars if I pissed you off.

I don't like fraud, and I believe it should be prevented wherever possible, especially when we as enthusiasts possess the knowledge and the means to help reduce it.  Ebay is a community, and they allow for this.  I do this rarely, but if you're chopping up a sheet of 1986 $2 notes and selling them off for 50 bucks each as errors, you will get a polite little note from me.  This fraud used to happen a lot more than it does now. 

Many $20 polymer fake errors have sold for just over face (final price + S&H).  Many more have sold for $55-$90.  There seem to be two listers that are cashing in on this.  They have duped many buyers out of over $1,000 in the last few days. 

I sell a lot on ebay.  I can tell you that most people that buy on ebay are not established collectors.  They are just starting out or buying as a novelty and are pretty vulnerable.  I can also tell that many of them are spending what is real money for them.  You don't get Rosedale or Westmount addresses.  Many are rural.  Many are remote.  Many are apartments in working class neighbourhoods.  There are some very old and very young buyers.

Because of this, I will always very gently and very discreetly make sure that these people are protected (when and how I can).

I thank Rupiah for bringing this to our attention.

Out.

I can tell you that most people that buy on ebay are not established collectors.  They are just starting out or buying as a novelty and are pretty vulnerable.

This is so very true.  I can't stand sellers who prey on these buyers with "buy it nows" on coins or banknotes, asking 10-20 times their true values.  They're simply looking for a sucker.  I filter out those sellers from my searches.

This is so very true.  I can't stand sellers who prey on these buyers with "buy it nows" on coins or banknotes, asking 10-20 times their true values.  They're simply looking for a sucker.  I filter out those sellers from my searches.

Come to think of it, this exactly what RCM has been doing for years Churning out NCLT junk that only declines in value with time, at prices way above the true value. 

It comes down to buyers being smart and not rushing to buy the first item they see. If in doubt, ask seasoned collectors among friends or join a forum like this one.

Also, eBay is a two-way street, buyers can often be unreasonable or dishonest, and on top of that they are protected by eBay policies. BTW, I rarely sell anything on eBay, but pay close attention to feedbacks and learn many interesting things.