$5 bills not welcome at Toronto Transit Commission token vending machines

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

I found that the Toronto Transit Commission token vending machines do not accept $5 bills. It seems like it is not something new but has been like that for many years at least as seen in this blog from 2006 (http://www.blogto.com/city/2006/09/ttc_token_machine_shortcoming/).

Found it rather surprising giving that there have often been discussions on the CPMF about $10 v/s $5 bills

e.g. http://www.cdnpapermoney.com/forum/index.php?topic=6952.0

I wonder how this impacts the thinking around $5 v/s $10 bills. I for sure found it very odd given that $5 is more ubiquitous compared to $10. But then TTC would want you to use the new polymer $20 as seen from the lastest image of the vending machine.

http://fightyourtickets.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2012-12-29_03681-e1356826646928.jpg

That's odd.  Just about every change machine I've seen accepts 5-10-20's. 

STM transit vending machines here accept loons, toons, and 5-10-20 bills.

It's because the prices for tokens are as follows:

7 for $18.55 + $1.45 change
3 for $7.95 + $2.05 change

The TTC doesn't mind giving you a fistful of chump change (yes, I've received the $1.45 in nickels and dimes before!    )
But they also want you to buy more tokens and most bank machines dispense $20s.  They want one transaction...$20 in, tokens and change out.

Dean

PS:  Whatever you do, do not buy a single token.  It's a scam as the price is exactly the cash fare!  The only time I can think of that being practical is to gain admission to the unmanned entrances...
TTC=TAKE THE CAR...

It's funny how the TTC vending machines will not accept $5 bills but will accept $10 bills.

But it's quite possible that TTC vending machines are similar to many change machines across the country.  $5 bills are heavily circulated, passed through numerous hands, and wear and tear more easily.  $10 bills, on the other hand, while they do have the same life expectancy as the $5 bill, the don't wear and tear as easily (at least in this day and age) because they can't buy a lot of stuff like $5 bills can.  If I recall, $10 bills are useful if you're buying a coffee at Starbucks or Second Cup, or any local coffee shop, or if you're at a bar buying a beer.  You can't even buy a pack of cigarettes with a $10 bill anymore (depending on where you live).  $5 bills rule greatly over $10 bills because they can buy a lot of popular high-demand items, such as a Pepsi, Coke, individual grocery items, chips/pop combo, bar/pop combo, donut/coffee combo, muffin/coffee combo, a Big Mac at McDonald's, a Teen Burger at A&W, lottery tickets, and the list goes on.

A lot of change machines will not give out change for a worn out $5 bill.  Maybe a better chance that a crisp $5 bill will get you change but nothing else.  A circulated $10 bill (though not too circulated) can be accepted no problem, because of its current low demand.

I also heard that secured cash dispensers (the ones tellers use to get the customer's cash) in at least some RBC branches where I am no longer dispense $5 bills.  I can see why.  A lot of $5 bills are heavily circulated and they never get replaced.  Loading such dispensers with circulated $5 bills would be a recipe for increased maintenance costs, and possible machine breakdowns.  Basically the same reason why $5 bills were removed from on-site ATM's starting in 1999 (maybe except for colleges and universities).  The last on-site ATM where I live dropped the $5 bills in March 2002 - around the same time that the Journey $5 bill was first released.  Seems as if the RBC branches are drifting away from the $5 bill for some time now, it started with the ATM's and now it's spreading to the secured cash dispensers.  I stopped doing business with RBC after the last ATM stopped dispensing $5 bills.  I came to RBC for a purpose, and since they stopped dispensing the bills I target at RBC, my job was done.

But yeah, to sum it up, $5 bills are basically not dispensed nor accepted in any kind of machine because of frequent usage, unlike the low-demand $10 bills.

They are probably just trying to deter people from using $5's so the machines aren't having to be refilled with change all the time.  Every $5 results in only one token, but $2.25 in change.

Everywhere around the world machines are used that accept low denomination notes. Hey in US they revolted against the $1 Coin because they were more used to inserting the $1 bill into the machines.

Are we saying that the $1 US bills wear out less than our $5 bills?

Besides these machines ought to be designed for users and not for the convenience of TTC and that's something maybe Toronto has to learn from other jurisdictions.

It would seem to me that Toronto Transit Commission does not think about the tourists who may want to buy just one token all be it at $3.

The capitalist in me tells me that rather than not take $5 for all the reasons mentioned if they really wanted to deter the use of $5 then they should say that if $5 was inserted only 1 token will be dispensed with no change.

If all I had was $5 bills in my pocket (which happened to me) I would rather suck up on losing the $2 in change then go all around looking for window with a conductor on a rainy cold night (try that at the Sheppard station at night).

Are we saying that the $1 US bills wear out less than our $5 bills?

The Federal Reserve says so.

For years the Federal Reserve claimed that a $1 lasted an average of 18 months in circulation.
Recently that number was revised upwards to 58 months.

Perhaps not coincidentally, the number was revised upwards right around the same time that the $1 coin was being seriously considered as a full replacement for the rag dollar, and the lobbyists for Crane Paper were out in Washington in full force.

Recently was in the US and got a chance to use a vending machine. Interestingly enough the vending machine made a special note of saying that it accepts the $5 bill. What a contrast to the Toronto Transit Commission vending machine.

Also I put in two bills one that was OK possibly a VG and another very ragged $1 bill, limp, tear, browned a "G" at best into the machine.

Lo and behold it accepted them - gave me my drink and change of 3 quarters.

As an afterthought I should have tried putting in $5 or $10 bill to see if it would give me quarters or dollar coins.

Well next time.

I can see a likely reason why some select Scotiabank ATM's in Toronto require $10 bills all the time.  It's for the convenience of those who need to purchase tokens at the TTC vending machines.

My apartment building had adopted a SmartCard system over the machine that lets you insert the SmartCard and then either a $10 or $20 bill in exchange for laundry transactions.  They obviously rejected the machine that would accept the $10 and $20 bills most likely because $10 bills are rarely seen where I live, and most often tenants would be left no choice to deposit a $20 bill, thus causing inconvenience and making such machines redundant, hence why they chose the machine that accepts debit cards, as debit card usage is continuously rising.