New eBay rules effectively treats anything NOT PMG / PCGS as RAW NOTES

News: Registration is free here at the CPMF!

While LOTs are not affected by this new rule, anything else must comply.

Basically if its not PMG or PCGS, you can NOT list anything regarding grade in the description or picture or title. (see bolded section below)

Graded paper currency and approved grading companies
A graded note is one that has received a numeric grade (Choice Uncirculated 64 or Very Choice New 64 for example) from a currency grading company. This numeric grade can be included in the title, description, or item specifics of the listing only if the paper currency has been graded by a company that has been found by us to meet certain minimum objective criteria.
Single notes listed in the Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: US or Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: World with a starting bid price, reserve price, or Buy It Now price of $2,500 or more must receive a numeric grade from an approved grading company, and the numeric grade must be included in the listing. This requirement doesn't apply to collections, lots, or sets listed within the Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: US or Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: World.
Approved grading companies:

    Paper Money Guaranty (PMG)

    Professional Currency Grading Service (PCGS Currency)

Criteria for approved grading companies
To be an approved grading service on eBay, the grading company must, at minimum, meet the following objective criteria:

    The service has graded at least 100,000 pieces of currency.

    The service provides a live, online & accurate population report of graded currency.

    At least one of the company principals should be a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild.

    There are at least 2 graders on staff who are considered currency experts within the trade. A currency expert is an individual who has worked as a full-time numismatist (with a specialty in currency) for at least 5 years. Both graders should be members in good standing of the American Numismatic Association (ANA) and Professional Currency Dealer Association (PCDA).

    The service provides a written buyback guarantee for currency later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, repaired, misgraded, or misattributed (not inclusive of mechanical or typographical errors related to the holder itself). This guarantee must apply to ALL notes encapsulated under the brand name of the currency.

    Third-party-graded (certified) currency must be encased in a unique, tamper resistant holder with anti-counterfeiting measures (such as a hologram or other method).

    The service enables online verification of unique certification numbers.

If a piece of currency isn't graded by one of these grading companies, it's considered raw and must meet the requirements for raw paper currency listings.
A piece of currency graded by a non-approved grading company can be listed, but the numeric grade can't be included in the title, description, or item specifics. You can't include an image of the note in its graded holder if that image shows a grade that is not completely obscured and unreadable on the photo.
We're always looking for companies that meet our grading criteria. Currency grading companies that meet these standards are encouraged to contact us.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/currstamps.html

Wonder if BCS has taken action to get themselves registered as an approved grader with eBay?

I find it very hard to believe that eBay will or can enforce these new policies.

A quick look of newly listed notes today in the Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: World > North & Central America > Canada > Bank of Canada category shows that a high majority of these are raw notes and are listed with grades given by the Seller.

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/Bank-of-Canada-/3429/i.html?_sop=10

What is eBay planning to do, end all these listings ?

I do not see any of the BCS graded notes on eBay with the grade obscured or unreadable (as required by eBay).

If they do try to enforce these new rules the number of listings of paper money, especially Canadian, will drop significantly.  This translates into lost revenue and we all know its all about the revenue.

It will be very interesting to see how diligent eBay is about enforcing these new policies / guidelines.

Wonder if BCS has taken action to get themselves registered as an approved grader with eBay?

Unforunately BCS or any Canadian TGP for that matter do not / can not even come close to fulfilling the 100,000 Note Graded qualifying threshold. Plus they would need to also change their holders to become tamperproof with hologram (or some other anti-counterfieting technology) printed actually on the holder (if im interpreting the policies correctly). Plus BCS and CCCS would also need to implement  a system for live, online & accurate population report of graded currency.

I find it very hard to believe that eBay will or can enforce these new policies.

A quick look of newly listed notes today in the Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: World > North & Central America > Canada > Bank of Canada category shows that a high majority of these are raw notes and are listed with grades given by the Seller.

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/Bank-of-Canada-/3429/i.html?_sop=10

What is eBay planning to do, end all these listings ?

I do not see any of the BCS graded notes on eBay with the grade obscured or unreadable (as required by eBay).

If they do try to enforce these new rules the number of listings of paper money, especially Canadian, will drop significantly.  This translates into lost revenue and we all know its all about the revenue.

It will be very interesting to see how diligent eBay is about enforcing these new policies / guidelines.

Im pretty sure they will be relying on the community to "report" such breaches of their new policies. However with the shear number of notes on eBay, it would not be feasible for them to instantly become compliant. It will take some time to ensure that all listing fully comply with the new policies.

Keep in mind that eBay's TPG policy only applies to notes listed at $2,500 and more, which is at the moment only 1.6% of all items listed in the Canadian notes section.

Keep in mind that eBay's TPG policy only applies to notes listed at $2,500 and more, which is at the moment only 1.6% of all items listed in the Canadian notes section.

My interpretation is:

1 anything over 2500$ must be graded by their approved tpgs. No raw $2500 notes allowed

2 anything below basically has to be graded by those tpgs IF you want to make any mention of grade in the picture, description or title

Refer to the following passage:

 This numeric grade can be included in the title, description, or item specifics of the listing only if the paper currency has been graded by a company that has been found by us to meet certain minimum objective criteria.

This matter sounds like a job for the CPMS to open a dialogue with eBay Canada and find a better solution where Canadian paper money is concerned.  It must be stressed to eBay that Canada has different grading standards and that we have grading companies which certify according to these standards.

Refer to the following passage:

 This numeric grade can be included in the title, description, or item specifics of the listing only if the paper currency has been graded by a company that has been found by us to meet certain minimum objective criteria.

Emphasis on "numeric grade".  I think it is still acceptable to use non-numeric grades for non-TPG notes.  The practice of attaching a number to a grade is something that TPGs have introduced to the hobby, so I actually think it is only appropriate that they get exclusive use of the numeric system while the rest of us continue to use the existing grading system (the one given in Charlton AND endorsed by the CPMS) for raw notes.  In fact, I would go as far as to say that private sellers who use numeric grades on raw notes are trying to mislead buyers into thinking that the seller's grading system has any correlation to the grading standards of PMG/PCGS.  As bad as PMG/PCGS grading standards are, there is one set of standards that is consistently worse: eBay seller standards.  So the fact that eBay recognizes this and is trying to do something about it is actually a GOOD thing.

It didn't take long for PMG to capitalize on eBay's new rules.  Here is an email I just received from Mark Salzberg at PMG:

Dear Fellow Numismatists,

I applaud eBay on its recent announcement of greater protection for paper money collectors. Its decision to recognize PMG and PCGS Currency as its only approved paper money certification services reflects what many in the hobby already knew — that not all grading services are the same.

Anyone can encapsulate a note with a label, but this stands in stark contrast to what PMG has done since it was founded more than a decade ago. The differences between PMG and other so-called grading companies are multifold and significant:

• PMG has an expert team of unbiased graders. Neither PMG nor its full-time graders buy or sell notes commercially. We do not compete with our customers.
• PMG uses a well-established grading scale that is recognized throughout the entire industry. Some other companies have wildly overgraded notes out of self-interest, either because they own the note or because they are trying to get more submissions from people who do not know better. PMG’s grading is accurate and consistent.
• PMG backs every note that it certifies with the industry’s strongest guarantee of grade and authenticity, which gives collectors and dealers recourse and remuneration in the rare event that PMG makes a mistake. If you use any other grading service, ask to see a copy of their guarantee. Ours is on our website.
• PMG encapsulates notes in a holder that has been extensively tested to ensure its suitability for long-term preservation and protection.
• PMG maintains a continually updated population report on its website to show the total number of notes that PMG has certified for each type and grade. There is also a tool to verify PMG’s certification of a note based on an assigned certification number. Both of these resources are free to all visitors to our website.
• PMG has been in business for more than 10 years and has had consistent ownership and management for its entire existence. It is vitally important for collectors and dealers to be confident that the company that certifies their notes is healthy, experienced and will still be around in the distant future.
• PMG is the official paper money grading service of both the American Numismatic Association (ANA) and the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG).

It is no wonder that PMG is the world’s largest third-party paper money grading service with more than 1 million notes certified.

Countless new collectors are introduced to the hobby through eBay, the world’s largest online auction company. It is essential that these collectors not be fooled into buying notes graded by companies with questionable reputations and practices.

eBay’s new policy goes a long way towards making it safer for people to buy paper money online and I congratulate them on doing the right thing. There remains, however, much more work to be done to protect consumers.

We need eBay to change its coins policy to similarly acknowledge that not all coin grading services are the same. And we need other auction companies and dealers to also take the same actions.

As our hobby evolves and expands, it is imperative that we work together to create greater transparency and add safeguards for collectors. Thank you, eBay, for taking a leadership role, and I look forward to continued improvements by you and the rest of our hobby.

Best wishes,

Mark Salzberg
PMG Chairman

I have been in contact with e-bay regarding approved grading companies.  I await there response.
If any of you would like to share your views with e-bay, you can direct your emails to suggest@ebay.com

-BCS

Well it looks like Ebay is now enforcing this rule, as they have removed all my BCS graded note listings and sent me the following message...

After reviewing your eBay account, it looks like you haven’t followed our Currency policy. We understand that you may not have been aware of this policy or that this may have been an oversight, so we're including some policy information to help you with your future listings. We also had to take the following actions:
- Listings that didn't follow eBay guidelines have been removed. A list of removed items is available further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).

Replica coins are not allowed to be listed or sold on eBay.

To learn more about this policy, go to:
http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/currstamps.html


The coin you listed has not been certified by an eBay approved certifier. Although the description in your listing states that it has been graded by one of our authorized graders, details within your listing show that the grade was given by a different company. Only the aforementioned companies' certifications are allowed for grading on eBay. We are grateful that you have chosen to use eBay to list this item, but we must ask that you not relist it as a graded coin without first receiving a certification from one of the above companies. Otherwise, you may list this item within the Raw and Uncertified Coins category, if you make no reference to its grade within the title, description, or item specifics. We would have loved to explain this to you over a phone call, however, this item was removed outside of our calling hours. (9:00 AM to 9:00 PM)

Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with this information and be sure that your current and future listings follow these guidelines. If they don’t, they'll be removed and we may, at our sole discretion, decide not to refund your fees. It could also result in additional actions, including loss of buying and selling privileges on eBay.

If you have any more questions, contact us:
http://ocsnext.ebay.ca/ocs/cusr?query=508&domain=email1383

The last time I checked, there were approximately 400+ BCS graded notes on EBay.
I assume that if EBay actually takes the time these will all be gone soon?
So how does one list a BCS note to sell?
Is it fine as long as BCS and grade is not mentioned in the listing title and/or description?
Seems so ridiculous.

I guess they will just slowly work their way through all the listings. The listings removed had already been up for a couple of weeks and removed at 11pm last night.

If I understand correctly we can state that it is graded by BCS but cannot make any mention of the numeric grade except for obviously what you can see in the photo.

Looks like my main photos for each listing will now be an enlarged shot of the numeric grade

If I understand correctly we can state that it is graded by BCS but cannot make any mention of the numeric grade except for obviously what you can see in the photo.

Looks like my main photos for each listing will now be an enlarged shot of the numeric grade

I just called Ebay and it was as painful as expected...

So all BCS graded notes must be listed under the category raw notes. As such, and graded raw notes cannot show the grade in any form including photos and scans. The grade must be completely blurred out. Wow!

Quote from ebay policy
"Raw paper currency are items that haven't been graded by a currency grading company, or has been graded, but not by an approved grading company.
Listings for raw paper currency must follow these guidelines:

    A numeric grade (such as 67, Choice Uncirculated 64, Extremely Fine 40, VF30) isn't included in the title, description, or item specifics of the listing.

    No estimate of value (even if personal opinion) or reference to a price guide is included in the title or description.

    The listing includes photos of the front and back of the currency being sold and you are authorized to use the photos. Stock photos and images that are dark, out of focus, edited, or misleading aren't allowed.

    Photos or scans of paper currency in holders from a non-approved grading company cannot show a grade. The grade must be completely obscured and unreadable.

    The starting, reserve, or Buy It Now price for the paper currency is less than $2,500."

starting to wonder how PMG has almost a monopoly on graded notes....
 

So all BCS graded notes must be listed under the category raw notes.

Just to clarify, there is no separate category for "raw notes".  Raw notes and graded notes can appear in any of the given existing categories (i.e., Dominion of Canada, Bank of Canada, Canadian Tire Money, and Other).

As for the eBay policies quoted in the previous posts, I can confirm that these policies appear on the ebay.ca website.  I was concerned that perhaps users were quoting policies from ebay.com, but in actuality, the rules are consistent between the Canadian and U.S. eBay sites.  That is quite alarming!  So eBay Canada is just going along with the rules put forward by the American parent company, meaning Canadian notes have to be graded by foreign TPG companies!  THAT needs to change.

A numeric grade (such as 67, Choice Uncirculated 64, Extremely Fine 40, VF30) isn't included in the title, description, or item specifics of the listing.

I would point out that eBay policy specifically prohibits numeric grades.  It should still be permissible to give descriptive grades (VG, Fine, VF, etc) in the item description.  Failing that, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to sell anything not graded by PMG or PCGS.  Well, not 100% impossible, but it would amount to forcing good sellers to adopt bad selling practices, such as putting up pictures of notes and telling buyers "grade it yourself according to the picture(s)".  That sort of policy could only create strife between sellers and buyers.