1935 Bank of Canada $50, BC-13, PMG AU 53 'previously mounted'

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

BWJM's full response to me:

As no personally identifiable information is publicly accessible, and for reasons previously mentioned, request denied.

It is in the best interests of the entire collecting community that the history of this note be available.  You would be well advised to learn from your mistake and take this opportunity to help others not make similar mistakes.  Taking you at your word that you are an innocent victim here, I feel sorry for you.  It was a mistake, and it's going to cost you.  Not because of anything that I or anyone else here has done... no, this is all on you.  You should have educated yourself before spending so much money.  You should have known to avoid a note that has been tampered with like this.  Think of it like buying a car... You get excited about some nice antique car, you're told that the panelling on the left side has been touched up a bit, but what you don't know is that it is after-market replacement parts made in China 50 years after the car stopped being produced.  It's no longer original, and no self-respecting car collector would want to own something like that, or at the very least wouldn't pay close to the kind of money that an original car would command.  Now you're stuck with it.  Do you try and cover up your mistake and pass it off to some other unsuspecting schmuck who doesn't know better, or will you admit your mistake, learn from it, sell it for parts and do your research next time?

I for one will play no role in a cover up like you are asking for.  Sorry.

I guess a wreck of a car has never been restored, using original parts, whether it meant finding them or removing rust from the ones that were, to bring it back to original showroom condition. Nah, that has never happened.

I guess we can all agree to disagree on the subject.
I'll leave it at that.

BWJM's full response to me:

As no personally identifiable information is publicly accessible, and for reasons previously mentioned, request denied.

It is in the best interests of the entire collecting community that the history of this note be available.  You would be well advised to learn from your mistake and take this opportunity to help others not make similar mistakes.  Taking you at your word that you are an innocent victim here, I feel sorry for you.  It was a mistake, and it's going to cost you.  Not because of anything that I or anyone else here has done... no, this is all on you.  You should have educated yourself before spending so much money.  You should have known to avoid a note that has been tampered with like this.  Think of it like buying a car... You get excited about some nice antique car, you're told that the panelling on the left side has been touched up a bit, but what you don't know is that it is after-market replacement parts made in China 50 years after the car stopped being produced.  It's no longer original, and no self-respecting car collector would want to own something like that, or at the very least wouldn't pay close to the kind of money that an original car would command.  Now you're stuck with it.  Do you try and cover up your mistake and pass it off to some other unsuspecting schmuck who doesn't know better, or will you admit your mistake, learn from it, sell it for parts and do your research next time?

I for one will play no role in a cover up like you are asking for.  Sorry.

I guess a wreck of a car has never been restored, using original parts, whether it meant finding them or removing rust from the ones that were, to bring it back to original showroom condition. Nah, that has never happened.

To go with this, your argument makes no sense when you say paneling. My note is still original, so it is like the body of an antique car having dirt removed and brought back to appear original and new. Will that hinder the value or bring it up? Tell me... ?
Like I said, I now see the 'faux pas' of buying a note with a stain removed but I feel to see the evil of it. It has been brought back to like new. It was not pressed and nothing was added. Chemicals (if used) were not bad because not detected, nor was there an odour.
Like I said in my next post, I think we can go around in circles or agree to disagree.

Funny how I have actually had coin and banknote dealers who know of the note as me if I know who did the work LOL.

Funny how I have actually had coin and banknote dealers who know of the note as me if I know who did the work LOL.

Any reputable dealer would only want to know the person who cleaned the note so they knew who to stay away from...

Any reputable dealer would only want to know the person who cleaned the note so they knew who to stay away from...

Sure, you believe that.
The one that reached out to me is pretty reputable and he asked if a tear can be fixed.

Lets see how honest you can be since you believe you did nothing wrong and cleaning is ok since it is now in your eyes, "Original"

The note was originally a BCS EF 40 so you said
Now it is a PMG AU
When you originally bought the bill was it stained and did someone cleaned it for you before you paid for it or was it done after you bought it
Then it was submitted to BCS and undetected and then to PMG
Is this the basic process?

BWJM's full response to me:

As no personally identifiable information is publicly accessible, and for reasons previously mentioned, request denied.

It is in the best interests of the entire collecting community that the history of this note be available.  You would be well advised to learn from your mistake and take this opportunity to help others not make similar mistakes.  Taking you at your word that you are an innocent victim here, I feel sorry for you.  It was a mistake, and it's going to cost you.  Not because of anything that I or anyone else here has done... no, this is all on you.  You should have educated yourself before spending so much money.  You should have known to avoid a note that has been tampered with like this.  Think of it like buying a car... You get excited about some nice antique car, you're told that the panelling on the left side has been touched up a bit, but what you don't know is that it is after-market replacement parts made in China 50 years after the car stopped being produced.  It's no longer original, and no self-respecting car collector would want to own something like that, or at the very least wouldn't pay close to the kind of money that an original car would command.  Now you're stuck with it.  Do you try and cover up your mistake and pass it off to some other unsuspecting schmuck who doesn't know better, or will you admit your mistake, learn from it, sell it for parts and do your research next time?

I for one will play no role in a cover up like you are asking for.  Sorry.

I guess a wreck of a car has never been restored, using original parts, whether it meant finding them or removing rust from the ones that were, to bring it back to original showroom condition. Nah, that has never happened.

That's why companies like CarProof exist.... No matter what the item is, buyers DESERVE and EXPECT to know the history of the item, one way or another. There are way too many sketchy people trying to pass off totalled and restored cars, using your example, as original. Just to make a buck without regard to others. What happens to the third, fourth or fifth owner of this note? Do they not deserve to know what they are actually buying? Is not like they're going to cut the note of and examine it, they'll overpay for it bc of what the holder says ( in good faith that the tpg caught everything).

Lets see how honest you can be since you believe you did nothing wrong and cleaning is ok since it is now in your eyes, "Original"

The note was originally a BCS EF 40 so you said
Now it is a PMG AU
When you originally bought the bill was it stained and did someone cleaned it for you before you paid for it or was it done after you bought it
Then it was submitted to BCS and undetected and then to PMG
Is this the basic process?

Fine because you people on this board make one feel like they committed a crime.
I purchased the note raw, graded it at a 45 EF through BCS, noted 'major stain'.
I spoke with a paper conservator, who said he could remove the stain and not alter the note at all, so I went for it.
I got it re-graded and here we are.
I kept its originality and brought the note back to life.
He assured me he used processes that don't alter the note and only remove the stain.
Is that so wrong?

IMO if you know what you bought and are happy with the note and the price you paid... that is fine
If you cleaned the note and re graded it so it is more pleasing to the eye and wanted to keep it ....that is fine
If you try to sell the note to an unsuspecting buyer and misrepresenting it .....that is wrong...
Clearly the cat value between an EF and an AU is substantial ....without knowing the history of the note a buyer could get royally screwed to say the least...once the facts came to light.
I would not want to be this buyer...would you?

How refreshing it is to see this forum taking a stand on the issue of grading provenance!  I can remember a time about 10 years ago when this very subject was brought to the forum, and the whole matter was swept under the rug because the owner of the note was a high-profile dealer and forum sponsor.  I guess "Deleted Member" is not getting the same privileged treatment.

Now, before anyone accuses me of trying to poke the bear, I will simply post before-and-after pictures of the note that was at the centre of the previous deep-sixed discussion, and then we can decide if we want to "go there" using this newfound zeal for openness and honesty in a so-called attempt to protect consumer-collectors...

BEFORE (VF damaged)

AFTER (described as "Unc" by the auctioneer)

Now, I used to have an entire website where I hosted images of notes that had been altered.  The website is gone, but I still have the images.  Would anyone like to see more before and after pictures like the ones above?

Now, I used to have an entire website where I hosted images of notes that had been altered.  The website is gone, but I still have the images.  Would anyone like to see more before and after pictures like the ones above?

Personally I would like to see more...I think that the more knowledge we have at our fingertips the better it is for the hobby as a whole...
I also think that many new collectors that get taken in at the start of their collecting easily get discouraged and do not stick with it long enough to truly enjoy it....I know the old saying Buyer Beware...but it would be nice if there is less to BEWARE about

Now, after all this, can we can to the subject at hand.
Do we have an opinions on the value of the note?
That's all I wanted.
What is a fair market price of such a note?

Now, after all this, can we can to the subject at hand.
Do we have an opinions on the value of the note?
That's all I wanted.
What is a fair market price of such a note?

Probably equal to or less than the book value at the original grade

How refreshing it is to see this forum taking a stand on the issue of grading provenance!  I can remember a time about 10 years ago when this very subject was brought to the forum, and the whole matter was swept under the rug because the owner of the note was a high-profile dealer and forum sponsor.  I guess "Deleted Member" is not getting the same privileged treatment.

Now, before anyone accuses me of trying to poke the bear, I will simply post before-and-after pictures of the note that was at the centre of the previous deep-sixed discussion, and then we can decide if we want to "go there" using this newfound zeal for openness and honesty in a so-called attempt to protect consumer-collectors...

BEFORE (VF damaged)

AFTER (described as "Unc" by the auctioneer)

Now, I used to have an entire website where I hosted images of notes that had been altered.  The website is gone, but I still have the images.  Would anyone like to see more before and after pictures like the ones above?

You can't compare my note to this.
Mine had a lousy stain removed, this is day and night.