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Topic: 1931 Bank of Montreal $10  (Read 1672 times)
34Coupe
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« on: March 03, 2017, 01:58:58 pm »

I'm looking for the value on the 1931 Bank of Montreal $10 note graded EF-40 by BCS.

Pictures attached.

Thanks.



friedsquid
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2017, 02:53:21 pm »

As with your PMG note (NET grade) which did not receive an EPQ designation your BCS note did not receive an ORIGINAL designation

According to BCS grading they state:

"To make clear and fair to the industry, any note that has not been altered in any way, be it a light pressing or an invasive cleaning, and receives a grade of EF or higher will also receive the auxiliary designation of ORIGINAL on the holder directly below the number grade."

Since the note did not receive this designation I believe the note must show some sign of alteration according to BCS....

Once again the question is raised were you aware of tis flaw regarding the note? Or did you buy it anyways?



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34Coupe
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2017, 07:50:52 pm »

I was not aware of any issues with the note prior to me buying it, and I sent it to BCS for grading.

The thing that would be nice for BCS to do is provide their "grading notes" to explain why a note gets the grading it does (original or not, etc.).

The different notes I sent in were mostly graded around what I assumed they would be, with this note actually getting a higher grade.  On a few of the notes there were holes listed, when there was one hole on the notes (possibly from a staple?) that I had not noticed.  So this also is helping me to better examine my notes.

Thanks for the reply.
friedsquid
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2017, 08:15:55 pm »

You can ask BCS for there reasons for the grade
They will have it on file



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34Coupe
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2017, 08:42:22 pm »

I wasn't aware of that and have sent them an email for the details.  Thanks for the information.
34Coupe
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2017, 01:13:50 am »

I'm hoping someone can still can provide a price range as I want to focus on BoC notes, not the charters.
Thanks.
34Coupe
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 05:04:18 pm »

As with your PMG note (NET grade) which did not receive an EPQ designation your BCS note did not receive an ORIGINAL designation

According to BCS grading they state:

"To make clear and fair to the industry, any note that has not been altered in any way, be it a light pressing or an invasive cleaning, and receives a grade of EF or higher will also receive the auxiliary designation of ORIGINAL on the holder directly below the number grade."

Since the note did not receive this designation I believe the note must show some sign of alteration according to BCS....

Once again the question is raised were you aware of tis flaw regarding the note? Or did you buy it anyways?


I received the following reply from BCS in regards to grading and the use of "Original" or not.

The reply was:
"For a note to receive an original designation, it must grade a VF-30 or higher, be free of any auxiliary damage such as holes or tears, and must not be pressed or cleaned or trimmed.  In the case of all of these notes, there is auxiliary damage listed in the comments section of the holder.  Holes, tears, foreign substance, staining, graffiti……these all prevent an original designation."

So in the case of my note it has foreign substances and soiling which prevented the original designation, and did not show any signs of alterations.  The note appeared to me to be non-pressed, cleaned, etc. and looked and felt right.

As a comparison I checked PMG's site and they state "a note is eligible for PMG's EPQ designation on grades of 25 and higher if they meet certain standards as listed below".  The standards quoted for a VF25 grade is listed as "A note that shows modest evidence of circulation as well as more folds and/or soiling than a note graded 30."

So back to my original question of what is the note worth as graded by BCS? 
A secondary question of what do you think the non original designation does to a notes value when it is a result of foreign substances, soiling and not processing (cleaning, pressing, trimming, etc.)?
friedsquid
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 10:05:20 pm »

Quote
So back to my original question of what is the note worth as graded by BCS? 
A secondary question of what do you think the non original designation does to a notes value when it is a result of foreign substances, soiling and not processing (cleaning, pressing, trimming, etc.)?

Personally the term not original to me says the note has been in some way altered/changed/modified what ever you want to call it from its original state whether intentional or not so I'm my opinion a  note that is not original is something I would not collect and definitely affects its value ...the worse the issue with the note  the lower the value
What do they consider a foreign substance ...ie is bleach a foreign substance or for that matter any other chemical that is used to brighten or alter a notes appearance? Also the term soiling may be used rather lightly as well ...is this wear and tear for example discoloration or dye transfer from say being in a wallet or just dirt transferred to the note in normal transactions of the notes life...I don't think TPG actually test the notes beyond what they see or think they see...they are not labs..



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friedsquid
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2017, 10:06:04 pm »

Personally the term not original to me says the note has been in some way altered/changed/modified what ever you want to call it from its original state whether intentional or not so In my opinion a  note that is not original is something I would not collect and definitely affects its value ...the worse the issue with the note  the lower the value
What do they consider a foreign substance ...ie is bleach a foreign substance or for that matter any other chemical that is used to brighten or alter a notes appearance? Also the term soiling may be used rather lightly as well ...is this wear and tear for example discoloration or dye transfer from say being in a wallet or just dirt transferred to the note in normal transactions of the notes life...I don't think TPG actually test the notes beyond what they see or think they see...they are not labs..




Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
34Coupe
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 02:07:51 pm »

I never did get a value on the note, but sold it this past weekend to a dealer for almost twice what I paid for it.
So all in all I'm happy with the outcome.
 

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