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Topic: 2006 series $5 with unclassified print/fold error  (Read 12141 times)
cdnmnta
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« on: April 11, 2017, 07:52:39 pm »

A few years ago I found the 2006 series (printed in 2010) $5 note pictured.

The lower left hand corner is missing the ink on the areas raised, and security stripe is missing the the clear protective covering that overlays the foil in the same area.

It has a hard crease in it on what seems to be a perfect 45 degree angle, and the beginning of the raised "BANK OF CANADA" lettering is printed on the reverse. However, the area missing the ink is much larger than the area represented by the reverse once folded along the hard crease.

Albeit less pronounced than normal, the embossing for the incomplete "BAN" printed on the reverse is present, and can be seen on the front of the bill. The note is in otherwise decent condition, with no major discoloration, marking, tears etc.

In addition to what it is worth, I'd also love to know how an error like this occurs. I was only able to find one other example (http://www.numicanada.com/medias/billets-de-banque/5-dollars-2004-n-d-01.jpg) which was unaccompanied by any sort of description. I understand the fold over and print on back, as the lettering lines up perfectly when folded, but am somewhat puzzled by the unprinted area being larger than the folded over area.

Thanks!
cdnmnta
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 07:57:41 pm »

Apologies, I tried to upload a picture but it didn't work. Here is a link to several pictures of the note in question:

https://ibb.co/album/fU1v8v
walktothewater
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 08:36:24 pm »

It looks like E1 (incomplete printing) likely caused by another note being on top of it when it was supposed to get the ink in that corner region.  Charlton would suggest you get approximately 25% of $140 -or $35 for that error (less than 25% of the front affected on a "fine" note).   Not sure how the displaced printing of "BAN" was misplaced into the bottom right corner and whether that would nudge up the value (& by how much?)  My best guess: it may bring up the value  by 5%

The price may also vary (up or down) according to how you sell it and who sees it. 

W2W

cdnmnta
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 08:42:42 pm »

Thanks for the quick reply! The "BAN" printing on the back lines up exactly with "BANK OF CANADA" when folded forward, which makes it seem like the note was folded when printed.
Seth
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 08:57:22 pm »

My guess is that this note was at the bottom left corner of the sheet (position mumber experts can you confirm?) with selvedge to the bottom and left. The corner was folder over when the sheet got the  the intaglio printing. Most of the missing printing on the front of the note would have gone onto the selvedge, which was later trimmed away, leaving only the little bit of "BAN" that remains on the back.

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cdnmnta
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 09:02:27 pm »

Neat! I couldn't wrap my head around how that would happen on a sheet but didn't think about the sheet not being printed to the edge, that makes perfect sense. Thank you!
Seth
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 09:28:52 pm »

It's definitely a folding error, but it doesn't seem to fit either of Charlton's descriptions for folding errors. It partly fits the description of multiple folds (printing from the front ending up on the back), but since the fold was fixed before the sheet was cut, no piece of an adjoining note or selvedge is attached.

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Rupiah
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 10:46:19 pm »

It's definitely a folding error, but it doesn't seem to fit either of Charlton's descriptions for folding errors. It partly fits the description of multiple folds (printing from the front ending up on the back), but since the fold was fixed before the sheet was cut, no piece of an adjoining note or selvedge is attached.

I thought the Error Description of E23 fits the missing intaglio ink aspect due to a fold.
Additionally Error Description E5 fits the printing on wrong side of the intaglio ink.

So technically can it not be classified as  E23 and E5?


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Rupiah
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 11:07:51 pm »

My guess is that this note was at the bottom left corner of the sheet (position mumber experts can you confirm?)

I would concur with your guess. It provides the most reasonable explanation based on all the verifiable information about the physical aspects of printing.

If you go by the information in the wiki the CBN layout 5 would be applicable: http://wiki.cdnpapermoney.com/index.php?title=BAI_and_CBN_Printing_Layouts#CBN:_Layout_5

As per this layout the way I understand it the FPN of the bottom left note on the sheet would be 19 and not 12. In fact the note with the FPN of 12 would be on the bottom right.

IMHO this error note proves the proposed print layout in wiki to be inconsistent with the physical evidence.

Most of the position number research (particularly with respect to the series where there have not been any sheets available in the market place) with respect to the physical print layout and the location of PN on the sheet I believe has been based on guess work except in a handful of situations where it is informed by some physical evidence.

The current wiki has erroneous information with respect to the location of PN on the sheet for the journey series notes. Even after providing physical evidence to show the error through CPMS Journals this information has not been corrected to reflect the physical evidence.

The most recently released sheets for the $10 commemorative notes show how the position numbers on the polymers have been used. Such evidence also existed for the $100 polymer series notes but it is not reflected in the wiki.

I am really not sure what research is being done in this area as the wiki was last updated in 2013. Of course this is discussion for another thread.


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Rupiah
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 11:13:30 pm »

I would concur with your guess.




Just to clarify I am no position number expert. My research does take me into the realm of examining physical evidence of Canadain bank notes (mostly late prefix journey and polymer series) which often times contradicts the conclusions made in the position number research in the wiki.

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Seth
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 11:22:05 pm »


If you go by the information in the wiki the CBN layout 5 would be applicable: http://wiki.cdnpapermoney.com/index.php?title=BAI_and_CBN_Printing_Layouts#CBN:_Layout_5

Thanks Rupiah for that link. I searched the Wiki for that page but could not find it—it appears to be orphaned. A link to it in the Charts and Graphs section would be helpful.

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Seth
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 11:29:04 pm »

As per this layout the way I understand it the FPN of the bottom left note on the sheet would be 19 and not 12. In fact the note with the FPN of 12 would be on the bottom right.

CBN Layout 5, described in the Wiki as "the main layout for all Journey series notes", has FPN 12 in the bottom left corner, so that matches up perfectly.

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Rupiah
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 11:29:52 pm »

Thanks Rupiah for that link. I searched the Wiki for that page but could not find it—it appears to be orphaned. A link to it in the Charts and Graphs section would be helpful.

Try this link to the main wiki page and then at the top look for CBN layout 5. Hope this works.

http://wiki.cdnpapermoney.com/index.php?title=BAI_and_CBN_Printing_Layouts

Also I just checked a paper that I had written for CPMS in which I have made reference to another layout for CBN.

That particular layout is given below and attributed to Marschner, M. (2010). "CBN-Issued $100 Journey Notes: Evidence of a New 36/on Layout", CPMS Newsletter, Vol 18, Num 3 (September 2010), pp 82-85:

Table 1
CBN Layout 5

   1   2   3   4   5
A   52/19   36/31   42/28   33/47   45/45
B   47/33   28/42   31/36   19/52   50/16
C   10/14   13/22   17/23   40/40   23/17
D   22/13   14/10   16/50   53/18   30/41
E   35/49   34/44   24/24   44/34   49/35
F   41/30   18/53   51/32   15/37   29/21
G   20/39   26/26   39/20   21/29   37/15
H   32/51   54/12   43/3/   25/46   48/11
I   27/27   11/48   46/25   38/43   12/54


This layout predates the one in wiki and has the note with FPN 12 and BPN 54 in a position that would be consistent with the folding error note.




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Rupiah
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 11:31:31 pm »

CBN Layout 5, described in the Wiki as "the main layout for all Journey series notes", has FPN 12 in the bottom left corner, so that matches up perfectly.

FPN 12/ BPN 54 as viewed from the back of the sheet. So if you are looking at the front of the sheet then FPN12 is the note to the right.

Look at the very top in the wiki to see how to read the layout.


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Rupiah
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 11:38:26 pm »

CBN Layout 5, described in the Wiki as "the main layout for all Journey series notes", has FPN 12 in the bottom left corner, so that matches up perfectly.

Here is the wiki on how to read the layout:

-Quote
Note: All layouts are displayed as you would see them from the back of the sheet. The Face Position Number (FPN) is listed first, followed by the Back Position Number (BPN), followed by a row-column number.
-End Quote

So when you are looking at the back of the sheet 12/54 would mean that the note with BPN of 54 is at the bottom left. This note has a FPN of 12. In order to see the FPN 12 you would need to flip the sheet over to the face thereby moving the note to the bottom right.


Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
 

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