Author
Topic: $2 dollar bird series hidden and clear BPN (back position number)  (Read 5690 times)
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859

I have run into $2 dollar bird series notes which exhibit a distinct difference in the manner in which the BPN (back position number) has been printed. The situation appears similar to the $100 dollar bird series notes.

I tried to find something in the GPMC and also searched the CPMF but could not find any reference to it. So far here is what I have found:

ARF to ARL have one type of condition - I'll call it hidden. (I have not had any sample of ARM and ARN to observe)

ARP onwards the condition is different - I'll call it clear.

ARX Crow Bouey shows both the conditions. I have seen an ARX 0000000 on the Bank of Canada Museum website which is hidden and I have seen ARX 1.259 also on the Bank of Canada Museum website which is clear.

I am wondering if this difference has been reported. The difference is very much noticeable not just at the location of the BPN but also in some other area of the grass in the vignette.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:26:28 pm by admin »

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
archer
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2018, 08:58:36 am »

If you access, there is mention of dark grass/pale grass below the robin in the CPMN vol. 1, #3 Sep 1993 pg. 29.
I have not come across this after that.
Archer
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2018, 11:16:25 pm »

If you access, there is mention of dark grass/pale grass below the robin in the CPMN vol. 1, #3 Sep 1993 pg. 29.
I have not come across this after that.
Archer

Thank you

I will see if a digital version is available then I can access is from the CPMS website.

The BPN and the grass differences are very convincing and predictable, more so than $100 bird notes. IMHO there has definitely been a change of design. It is not because of some random variation in printing.

I am surprised there is no greater mention of them. This is even more intriguing given that the Bank of Canada Museum recognizes the Bird $100 Hidden BPN as a variant in their categorization.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2018, 11:41:11 pm »

If you access, there is mention of dark grass/pale grass below the robin in the CPMN vol. 1, #3 Sep 1993 pg. 29.
I have not come across this after that.
Archer

Just saw the newsletter and found a short article. It is interesting that the note talks about two different things:

1. The small and large B on BBP and BBX. This one has been mentioned in the GPMC.

2. Differences in "colour" in notes from ARF to ARN and maybe ARP and ARS and also ARX. The prefix range that is mentioned is the same as the prefix range that I have mentioned. However the condition mentioned is the "colour" difference. I think a closer look will show that the more definitive difference is the design of the grass around the BPN and also the design of grass in some other areas.

Based on that article it is likely that ARP, ARS and ARX would have notes with both conditions.

If anyone has these prefixes ARF to ARZ (but more importantly ARM, ARN, ARP, ARS and ARX) I would appreciate if you can post a picture of the back that can be zoomed to adequately show the detail around the BPN.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
missinglink3
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 49
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2018, 03:20:09 pm »



Here's the BPN for a ARM prefix.

Hope it helps you

Thanks
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2018, 03:24:25 pm »



Here's the BPN for a ARM prefix.

Hope it helps you

Thanks

Most certainly it does. Thank you for the great picture. This is a hidden BPN.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2018, 03:28:38 pm »

Thank you to those who have kindly responded to this post. A few of you have messaged me separately. I will share the results through this post.

In the meantime please continue to share if you have these prefixes - ARX, ARF to ARR.

I would like to determine the transition point.

The design change is very consistent and notable.


Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
dasche
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 09:49:07 am »

Here is one from my collection.

Beatrix
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 01:40:12 pm »

Found a new bill to add to my collection this week that falls within the range you're asking for. Hope this helps

Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2018, 01:03:56 am »

Found a new bill to add to my collection this week that falls within the range you're asking for. Hope this helps



Thank you very much. This is also a hidden BPN.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2020, 12:51:21 am »

Recently someone wrote to me to ask if there is an update on this one. So here is what I have so far:

It is very clear that that there was a design change. The design change is much more visually noticeable than the design change in the $100. IMHO this should be of interest for collectors and for Charlton.

I have narrowed down the transition or changeover point

For the regular run the transition is in ARN. I have found lower numbers of ARN with hidden BPN and higher numbers with a more visible BPN.

This transition is also seen in Crow-Bouey ARX. Although I do not collect these notes I had to end up buying a few to find out for sure. Lower number ARX Crow-Bouey are hidden BPN and higher number Crow-Bouey ARX are with more visible BPN.

So if you have ARX and ARN notes kindly check and post the photo that shows a clear view of the BPN.

Thank you

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
HANDI
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2020, 01:19:30 pm »

1 more ARX
Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2020, 12:20:28 am »

1 more ARX
@HANDI - Thx - This is a hidden BPN - Compare this with any prefix after ARN and you will notice a significant difference.

It is just not the number that has moved but there has been a deliberate rearrangement of grass blades in the immediate vicinity.

Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
walktothewater
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,314
  • Join the Journey
    • Notaphylic Culture
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2020, 09:41:59 am »

Here's an ARX (BPN 99 I believe) looks like it's part of the grass design
& BRX (with a BPN 62) that appears separate from the grass design:

Rupiah
  • Very Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2020, 02:11:11 am »

Here's an ARX (BPN 99 I believe) looks like it's part of the grass design
& BRX (with a BPN 62) that appears separate from the grass design:

Hi walktothewater,

The ARX and BRX that are shown in the image with your post are both "not hidden".

Yes you can notice that the BPN appears to be in a different position but fundamentally the design has not changed and it is most likely an out of register issue.

However if you now compare the ARX and BRX in your image with the ARX shown by HANDI you will notice the distinct design change.

I have taken the liberty to combine and annotate the three images to highlight the design change.

Near the area of the BPN there are two design changes. The most distinct is that one of the blades of grass has been moved to the left. Because of that move the overlapping of that blades with surrounding blades has changed.

The more subtle change is that in the Hidden BPN the BPN is positioned so that it has blades of grass on the immediate left and right of the BPN. In the revised design the BPN is moved lower so that it is kind of below the arch created by the blade of grass.

Please click on the image to see a bigger size which shows the details of the design change


Wonder what paper money would say if it could talk?
 

Login with username, password and session length