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Topic: Macklem-Carney $5 HAE  (Read 11940 times)
Just Bank Notes
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« on: July 12, 2021, 10:41:44 am »

Hello CPMF,

I have a Macklem-Carney $5 printed in 2011, HAE 9978078.  This note is graded BCS F 12 and is a reasonable filler note given that prefix HAE is hard to find.

The latest Charlton catalogue prices VF at $160 and eBay wildly suggests $1,000+.  So this range is huge to say the least.

Now that only 29 are reported here on CPMF (just added this one) what is a reasonable value?

Cheers
walktothewater
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2021, 12:53:41 pm »

.. I have a Macklem-Carney $5 printed in 2011, HAE 9978078.  This note is graded BCS F 12 and is a reasonable filler note given that prefix HAE is hard to find.

The latest Charlton catalogue prices VF at $160 and eBay wildly suggests $1,000+.  So this range is huge to say the least.

Now that only 29 are reported here on CPMF (just added this one) what is a reasonable value?
-It's really hard to say without a picture.  Eye appeal is generally paramount but so is a number of other factors rarely considered by today's sellers.  Most collectors i know wanted EF to UNC (& wouldn't settle for less).  Is the note a "must-have" or has the collector burned out on Journey examples?

Furthermore, the number reported by the SNDB has to be taken with a grain of salt at best since runs of consecutive numbered notes may have been discovered but only 2 reported. In addition, every collector anticipated the arrival of the high # HAE change-over & not every collector contributes to the SNDB. We didn't see many entered but this was also a time when less members contributed to the CPMF.

It's very difficult to go by eBay since the online platform has edged further out into the "wild west" territory.  At one time, like when these tough change-overs were discovered, they would be listed in True Auction style format so it would be easier to tell (& inform you) what the market would bear.  The last time I saw circulated HAE sell for $100 - $250 but I have not watched BOC banknotes in the past 3 years. I just lost interest as so many US collectors started snatching up (& selling BOC items) with their strong US dollar. It didn't make any sense to keep collecting BOC notes.

Now a days, everyone seems to want to sell "BIN" (Buy it Now) so many collectors have left eBay platform & sought out notes through different venues.  Maybe someone else can help you but as I wrote- a photo/scan of the note would help!

Just Bank Notes
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2021, 12:31:00 pm »

“walktothewater” offers some interesting opinions.
 
Thankfully we collectors can find 2011 Macklem Carney $5 bank notes in Unc with common prefixes. The interest in HAE comes from a smaller group of prefix collectors.  I collected prefixes years ago and understand that appeal.  (I kept my favourite set; the ANA-ANZ series of $5’s which had three sets of signatures in the Bird Series and then changed over to the Journeys!)

I doubt there are runs of Unc HAE’s out there. Anyone who has a stack of them would find it hard to resist selling some at 100x face.  A few would trickle out; we have not seen this at auctions or from retailers.  A similar story would be playing out right now with the $5 IND prefix.

We agree that eBay’s pricing is high and we need to think twice before clicking bid or buy.  Keep in mind that there are a few gems on eBay in terms of price and some are truly “rare” notes!

I believe that Charlton is measured when adjusting values of harder to find prefixes in modern bank notes.  The catalogue avoids chasing the latest auction result and I think this continues to support Charlton as a reputable pricing guide.

As always, auctions settle the discussion of value at a given moment in time. These are simply my opinions and part of a good conversation.

Here is an image of the HAE.
Cheers

walktothewater
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2021, 03:55:52 pm »

-Nice note!

Quote
The interest in HAE comes from a smaller group of prefix collectors.  I collected prefixes years ago and understand that appeal. ..
I doubt there are runs of Unc HAE’s out there.

We agree on many things & I would venture to say that the only reason Charlton gives GEM UNC 2011 HAE a BV of $500 is simply due to demand.  The 2011 HAE change-over became the sweetheart of the Journey $5 as I recall the craze of trying to find one easily myself. It was only like yesterday. But here's the thing: I saw several UNC auctioned off on eBay during the time they were being released & bid (& lost) on many of them. Most went for $250-$350 but as I wrote before I lost track (& interest). I kept thinking I would find one like I found an APM $5.  ::) :D As you can well imagine there was indeed a lot of speculation on how many of these "sweethearts" were out there during this time. You could search this site for some of that speculation. And, as usual, I got many members here offering to sell me their spare circulated HAE's. I had about 4 different members ask me if I wanted to buy them for 3 to 4X BV but back then I felt that their offers seemed ludicrous (always a VF/Ef for the price of AU, etc). It especially seemed crazy to me when many of the 2011 "lost prefixes" (HAF-HAL) were going for a fraction of the cost & had similar low # reported. Nobody offered to sell me these so I hunted for them on eBay as well. What I found interesting (& crazy) was that the number of auctions for HAE far outnumbered the auctions for HAH, HAJ & HAL.  Only HAF, HAG & HAK were about as plentiful as the HAE.  I also remember talking to a member of the Charlton pricing panel, who appeared to have inside info, and he stated emphatically that the lost prefixes were far more plentiful than I (& many others) were speculating.  Not long after that, we saw 1 or 2 bricks of HAF & HAG being offered. I have never seen multiples of the other lost prefixes.  I still think that HAH, HAL and HAJ are just as tough as the sweetheart HAE but since they're not designated change-overs, will probably always lag behind in BV.

So, bottom line is, I would never pay $500 for an UNC HAE even if it were offered to me by a kind collector friend. I just feel it's too much. Also, I would not compare the story of the 2011 HAE with what little we know re: the IND. I would prefer to compare their release with the end of the original 2000 Journey $10 & what happened to the BEL, BEK, BEP & 2003 BER prefixes.  The new security stripped BEU-BEW/FEP to FEU were being rushed into circulation & it is speculated that the BOC withdrew the last of those $10 "lost prefixes" much like they may have done with the $5 (HAE - HAL) as the polymer was being introduced.  The BEL prefix became the "sweetheart" of the Tens many years before the 2011 HAE (though its not a change-over).

 

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