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Topic: $300-$400 budget on one note, suggestions?  (Read 4271 times)
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« on: April 26, 2023, 07:41:18 pm »

Hi,

First time poster.

I'm looking to buy a Canadian banknote, most likely graded in the $300-$400 range or less if anyone has any good suggestions. 

Cheers

BC

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walktothewater
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2023, 09:12:06 am »

Welcome to the CPMF Banknote Collector! 
I will make some suggestions working backwards from most recent to 1937.  I won't suggest the 1935 Series simply because your budget would only get you an English $1 in EF-AU & they all seem to be a bit pricey. They're also often stocked up by US sellers (& priced in USD) which can really hurt the avg collector. All my recommendations are IMO & I'm pretty certain there will be many collectors out there who will disagree with what I write (so take the info as such).
 
Journey Series:

I'm still a big fan of the $10 "lost prefixes" from the original Journey series (BC-63c) circa 2003 when the BoC was actively culling these notes due to rampant counterfeiting. I've seen a few dealers stock up on these - which translates into somewhat reasonable pricing due to weakened collector demand. These notes won't be easy to source forever so this would probably be where I'd put my money on if I was starting out.
Some "good buys" may be:
Jenkins-Dodge BEK (non replacement) for about $400 in C UNC/ The other one to look for is the BEL prefix which you could get for $350-$400 in EF- EF+ (original).  General rule of thumb- dealers/sellers tend to be more flexible with their pricing on later series.

BIRDS Series:
TBH, I'm not a huge fan of the Birds Series but I still feel there's 2 notes that are under valued & not yet appreciated for how scarce. These happen to be (BC-57a) the Thiessen-Crow BDH (840,000) & the Bonin Thiessen ATX (140,000).  I've seen weak demand for the BDH change-over (around $450 for UNC) & I would snap one up if I had the spare funds but usually am tapped out whenever I see these come up for sale. Most collectors have been after the early insert replacements (BDP 4.44- 4.46, BDZ up to 40,000) but I'm not a fan of these. The Bonin-Thiessen inserts will put you out about $$400 in UNC but the designated ATX replacement will only cost around $200 for UNC. 
The $5.00 early inserts are dear so I would put my money on the B-T FNX (40,000) which I've seen priced all over the place (partly b/c small batches come into market I believe) but I wouldn't mind one of those either if the price was right (around $750 in C UNC)

1979 Series:
The 1979 series tends to be unpopular probably since we all have seen family/friends dig up circulated examples well into the BIRDS & even the Journey era.  However, if you could get a replacement (serials which start with "510" or "516" as the first 3 digits for $20 & " 31 " for the $5.00) I would snap it up in high "original" grades only.

Multi-colour 1969-1975 Series:
I love this series as it was the series I grew up with.  I think many of the * replacements in high grade would be worth pursuing & the top grades for both the $10 & $20 could be within your budget. I would be seeking notes in TPG (Third Party Graded) holders like PMG or BCS if it was my money (simply b/c that's a good chunk of change for 1 note).

I'm not a big fan of the 1867-1967 Series so I'm going to skip this one.

1954 Modified Series:
This is the other series I'm most familiar with. I'd be looking at any replacement in various UNC conditions ("Original/EPQ being a must).  Many people pressed these notes so just getting them in "original" is a feat in itself for some of these. The Beattie-Coyne *A/C & *R/C $5 (BC-39aA) with 16,000 (& 8000 for R/C) printed are both personal favourites.  You might be able to get an AU *A/C for $400 and the *R/C should cost the same in UNC. There are some tougher replacements with the Beattie-Rasminsky signature for the FIVES (*L/S; *N/S; *I/X) but the *W/S or *N/X may be within your budget in (or near) UNC. The Beattie-Coyne *A/B $2.00 would also be on my WANT LIST for $500 in Choice UNC.

1954 Devil Face Series:
My catalogue puts both Coyne-Towers & Beattie Coyne $10 plus the Beattie-Coyne $5 within your budget.  I find this hard to believe b/c if my memory serves me correct, these notes have really gone ballistic so I'd be surprised if you can get an UNC for $400.  You could try the $2 though (& definitely the $1 in TPG holder).  I'm not a big fan of these simply b/c the demand outstrips supply & US dealers tend to buy these in bulk & resell them for our catalogue pricing in USD (which is an instant 30-40% bump up in price).  Millions of these were issued (esp the lower denoms) but the higher denominations were limited & can be tough. Seek a higher denomination in "Original or EPQ" if you can find it within your budget.

1937 Series:
I'm a big fan of the 1937 series & especially the "Ozzie" first signatures (BC-21a) & the $1.00 Narrow panel notes (BC-21b H/A or J/A prefixes).  It will be tough to get an UNC Osborne-Towers $1 within your budget but you may get lucky with a raw (ungraded) example.  You can also get a Gordon-Towers $2.00 or $5.00 note in high grade (Choice UNC) within your budget (I believe) but I have not really been keenly aware of the CDN banknote market as much as I was in the past & the market really took off during the pandemic. I would suspect things have settled recently & perhaps you may find a good buy for a nice looking AU 55 example.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 09:51:18 am by walktothewater »

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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2023, 04:38:13 pm »


Wow great response!  I just bought one of the banknotes mentioned by you.  When it comes in I will post a picture.  I'm sending you a PM, need some advice on another note im currently looking at.

Cheers



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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2023, 02:49:56 pm »


Anybody have any other recommendations?

Cheers

BC

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Snoman
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2023, 10:38:44 pm »

Do you have a Charlton Government Paper Money Catalogue yet? This is a really good resource when you are looking at the different notes to collect. Also Buy what you like to look at, even if its a cheap note, spend time getting to know the different series of banknotes and find something that speaks to you whether it be colour, theme, or historical connections. Attend local coin shows and coin shops, and watch some auctions online or in person, this is where the prices are set for the market. Take time and learn from anyone willing to share their knowledge and time with you. And always take time to share what you learn with others in the hobby. One more good resource is the Canadian Paper Money Society (http://www.cpmsonline.ca/)

Enjoy!
Just Bank Notes
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2023, 11:34:48 am »

I agree with all of the advice offered by Snoman.  And, learn how to grade notes!

I presume that you are looking to collect more than one Canadian note as suggested in your original post.  If you are starting or adding to a Canadian collection consider focusing on an area – only those with deep pockets can buy it all.  Consider obtaining brand new polymer notes issued today rather than saving an old looking circulated note found at the bank.  In 5 to 10 years from now you will understand why.  With all of the signature changes right now you could quickly build up a nice set of varieties.  When you budget allows, start working back to older notes.

JBN
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2023, 12:12:49 pm »

I might have given the impression that Im a new collector in my original post.  Ive been collecting Banknotes for about 5yrs.  So not entirely new to banknotes, sorry for misleading anyone.  But I am always learning.

@snoman Yes I have a few Charlton's and other Canadian paper money guides.  I might be a little younger than the average age for banknote collectors on this forum, but I don't know anybody in person besides dealers that are collectors of banknotes.  Thats why I joined this forum to find people that are experienced and know more than me about banknotes and I am always looking to learn more.  This forum is a great place, we are lucky it exists.  I find this hobby truly rewarding.

@JBN good advice in regards to the specializing. I don't have many modern issues but this is an area im going to be focusing on also.  As funny as it may sound I want to be a complete collector but looking for higher grade on most issues, unless cost prohibitive. The first dealer I bought from years ago told me its a marathon not a race.  I stopped collecting during the pandemic and am now jumping back in.

As far as the learning to grade goes Im always working on this.  I will be posting frequently in the Grading section with pictures and my opinions so I can see what other more experienced members have to say.  Its my only way to get feedback at this point.

Thanks for the responses so far everyone!

Cheers

BC

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Dean
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2023, 02:44:54 pm »

Anybody have any other recommendations?

Cheers

BC

There are many directions you could take in your collecting journey.

If I was starting all over again, I'd do the following:

1.  Start with a type collection-one of each denomination of every Bank of Canada series.
2.  Diversify into signature types for each series.
3.  Expand into prefix collecting for each series.
4.  Obtain replacement notes for the series that issued them.
5.  Look for errors from each series.

Dean

AL-Bob
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2023, 05:06:45 pm »

Welcome to the forum!

I would strongly suggest that you also take a look at Chartered Bank notes (https://cdnpapermoney.com/notes/issuers/6).

There are a huge number of varieties and you could get a much bigger "bang for your buck", so to speak.  You can find some pretty scarce notes within your budget and even make new discoveries because it's a much wider and thinner market.  Your collection would be a lot more interesting as every note is different and represents a different era and region of Canadian history.

Also, there is a much greater challenge in actually finding each note as most are not simply available to be ordered on-demand from a dealer.  It takes a lot more patience to find a particular note but that's what makes it all-the-more rewarding.  Also, there is less nit-picking over imperceptible differences in grade:

The market for modern Canadian notes (Bank of Canada) has followed the US and basically come down to who can get the highest PMG grade for a particular note with a 68 EPQ being 5x the price of a 67 EPQ and so-on down the ladder with anything below Unc60 being considered uncollectable junk.  On the other hand, high grade in the Chartered world might mean VF, sometimes EF or AU.  Some more common notes exist in UNC but generally everything is so rare that even a mid-grade and low-grade examples retain their value.

Here are a few banks with beautiful historical notes which are accessible within your budget, even in high grade:
The Bank of Brantford
The Bank of Clifton
The Colonial Bank of Canada
The International Bank of Canada
The Bank of Prince Edward Island
The Westmorland Bank
The Zimmerman Bank

There are also the mainstays (where you can find more common late-issues) like:
The Canadian Bank of Commerce
The Dominion Bank
The Bank of Montreal
The Bank of Toronto
The Royal Bank
etc

As others have suggested, quality over quantity!  If you buy fewer notes but perhaps stretch your budget a little to maybe $1000 you'll have a much more interesting collection in the long run, I believe.  Try to always get the best of any particular type but don't get so obsessive over grade that you're only looking at Gem Uncs.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2023, 05:09:05 pm by AL-Bob »


AL-Bob(at)cdnpapermoney com
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2023, 08:59:59 pm »

There are many directions you could take in your collecting journey.

If I was starting all over again, I'd do the following:

1.  Start with a type collection-one of each denomination of every Bank of Canada series.
2.  Diversify into signature types for each series.
3.  Expand into prefix collecting for each series.
4.  Obtain replacement notes for the series that issued them.
5.  Look for errors from each series.

Dean

I like the idea of a type collection.  I was thinking about $1 Bills, very doable in UNC or better. Then $2.  I really like errors and varieties.

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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2023, 09:02:23 pm »

Welcome to the forum!

I would strongly suggest that you also take a look at Chartered Bank notes (https://cdnpapermoney.com/notes/issuers/6).

There are a huge number of varieties and you could get a much bigger "bang for your buck", so to speak.  You can find some pretty scarce notes within your budget and even make new discoveries because it's a much wider and thinner market.  Your collection would be a lot more interesting as every note is different and represents a different era and region of Canadian history.

Also, there is a much greater challenge in actually finding each note as most are not simply available to be ordered on-demand from a dealer.  It takes a lot more patience to find a particular note but that's what makes it all-the-more rewarding.  Also, there is less nit-picking over imperceptible differences in grade:

The market for modern Canadian notes (Bank of Canada) has followed the US and basically come down to who can get the highest PMG grade for a particular note with a 68 EPQ being 5x the price of a 67 EPQ and so-on down the ladder with anything below Unc60 being considered uncollectable junk.  On the other hand, high grade in the Chartered world might mean VF, sometimes EF or AU.  Some more common notes exist in UNC but generally everything is so rare that even a mid-grade and low-grade examples retain their value.

Here are a few banks with beautiful historical notes which are accessible within your budget, even in high grade:
The Bank of Brantford
The Bank of Clifton
The Colonial Bank of Canada
The International Bank of Canada
The Bank of Prince Edward Island
The Westmorland Bank
The Zimmerman Bank

There are also the mainstays (where you can find more common late-issues) like:
The Canadian Bank of Commerce
The Dominion Bank
The Bank of Montreal
The Bank of Toronto
The Royal Bank
etc

As others have suggested, quality over quantity!  If you buy fewer notes but perhaps stretch your budget a little to maybe $1000 you'll have a much more interesting collection in the long run, I believe.  Try to always get the best of any particular type but don't get so obsessive over grade that you're only looking at Gem Uncs.

Good luck!

TBH I barely thought about Chartered bank notes.  I am going to start reading up on them.  I do however remember seeing a Barclays note I saw some time ago.  Also great advice!

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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2023, 07:44:05 am »

@Al Bob

They say the St Gaudens Double eagle is the gateway drug into US Gold.  What would you say is the gateway into Canadian Chartered Notes?


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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2023, 11:15:13 am »

Banknote Collector,

I don't think there's a single answer to your question.  But if you start with something like this: https://currency.ha.com/itm/canadian-currency/clifton-pc-bank-of-clifton-5-oct-1-1859-ch-125-10-04-06/a/3549-26145.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115 and build up a type set of one of each denomination then you'd be off to a running start.

Even though I started off much like others in this thread have suggested: with a type set of multicoloured, 1954, 1937, etc, I think that was mostly a mistake.  I thought I needed one of everything in all the modern issues before I could move on to 1935 and Dominion of Canada, and then I needed to complete all of those before I even thought of getting into Chartered notes.  Unless you have a huge budget, you'll just end up with the same collection as thousands of other not-so-serious collectors that way.  It doesn't have to be Chartered notes, but I would suggest you choose a niche that will differentiate your collection from all the others and also give you a challenge to put together.

One thing that was holding me back from Chartered notes was my reluctance to spend $$$ on the rather pricey catalogue.  However, at least it seems to be available right now as it's frequently becomes sold out between editions:
https://www.charltonpress.com/products/canadian-bank-notes-10th-editions


AL-Bob(at)cdnpapermoney com
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2023, 11:55:24 am »


Ive had the 9th edition for a couple years now.  Interesting point about specializing.  Lots to think about.  I do like varieties, errors and rare prefixs/replacements.

It was interesting that you basically touched on the exact way Ive been thinking lately about getting all the standard notes and then moving on to 1935 and Dominion etc.  This seems logical and thats the way Ive been thinking as of late.  I was thinking about this approach and then sprinkling in the more rare notes along the way.  Ive been disheartened by the huge premium's on eBay being charged by most for banknotes that aren't particularly rare.  Ive had the best luck working directly with dealers. 

Thanks for the info!

Cheers

BC

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walktothewater
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2023, 04:15:43 pm »

Some great stuff to ponder here, BC.

One thing I like about the "marathon" approach is to remember how the prices go in cycles.  For example, I bought my first solid & ladder-radars during the peak of the 2009 financial crises & paid about 40% to 50% the BV at the time. I also developed a friendship/relationship with a well known dealer from the east coast & he not only cut me some great deals, but he gave me some very prudent collecting strategies (some of which we've covered here).

The only thing I would add is to try to stay active (in some way). This doesn't need to mean buying all the time. It could just mean contributing to a forum, going to a show (stock up on supplies) or researching the type of DOC notes (setting goals) you wish to acquire (research & get an idea of what prices were paid for which varieties in past auctions). I used to collect like the typical dabbler, tune in once (or a few times) a year (if that).  I often missed the boat in a lot of ways. Then about 20 years ago I decided to always keep a pulse on what was hot (what was not), etc. I believe that's how I have saved money (from making poor/impulsive decisions) as well as become a better collector (get organized, set goals, etc)!

 

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