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Topic: US note grading  (Read 22967 times)
rscoins
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« on: September 15, 2005, 08:45:14 pm »

This is not to cercumvent the non-ebay items. I have no comment on this seller or the grading of the note, It is to point out the grade, nothing more.

Anyone know this grading company?



Quote
This is a beautifully centered, bright $20 2004 Federal Reserve Note serial # EC00000004D, graded as Superb Gem CU 67 by CGA.  Single digit low serial numbered notes from this series have become very popular.

Use the "Buy it Now" to purchase this beauty for $875, which is what you would expect to pay if it was in Choice CU condition.


Rick

[Edited out eBay link, included image and partial description. --BWJM]
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 10:05:39 pm by BWJM »
BWJM
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2005, 10:03:50 pm »

Can't say I know anything about this particular grading company. Mind you I have seen their holders on many American notes on eBay.

BWJM, F.O.N.A.
Life Member of CPMS, RCNA, ONA, ANA, IBNS, WCS.
President, IBNS Ontario Chapter.
Treasurer, Waterloo Coin Society.
Show Chair, Cambridge Coin Show.
Fellow of the Ontario Numismatic Association.
rscoins
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 10:14:25 pm »

Thanks for the cleanup, Brent.

It is unlikely I could have done that.

Note the grade is Gem Uncirculated 67. I wonder if they grade Canadian notes as well.

Rick
TheMonetaryMan
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 10:54:48 pm »

I am on the road and dont have access to all my files but on my palm I have the following info on them:

Commenced business operations on Dec 1, 1997.  Fees approx $25.00 per note. Contact Information:  PO Box 141235, Staten Island, New York 10314-008. Phone: 718 983-5899.

Troy

« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 10:57:08 pm by TheMonetaryMan »
Tom
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2005, 02:48:43 am »

http://www.cganotes.com/

Can't seem to see thier grading standards though.   ::)

Tom
TheMonetaryMan
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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2005, 09:49:06 am »

Looks like my file can use some updating, they have jumped across the pond to NJ it would appear from their website.

Troy
« Last Edit: September 18, 2005, 02:17:29 am by TheMonetaryMan »
TheMonetaryMan
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2005, 09:53:17 am »

I am all but certain they are using the Friedberg method not only for cataloging but also for grading which is being widely adopted in the USA.

Notes accurately graded according using this system are fetching strong premiums as not all UNC's are treated the same and an UNC 67 or 65 is getting much stronger prices than an UNC 60.

I can post a follow up if you wish with the details of how this system works.


Troy
« Last Edit: September 18, 2005, 10:51:55 am by TheMonetaryMan »
paperchase
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2005, 02:25:15 am »

Troy:
I, for one, would be very interested in how this grading system works. Although I tend to be an advocate of the current grading system used in Charltons (& CPMS), I think exposure to other grading systems must be viewed (and debated) with an open-mind.
Thanks
Rob
TheMonetaryMan
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2005, 11:28:02 am »

This information comes from the current Official Red Book of USA Paper Money by Arthur L. and Ira S. Friedberg (page 41).

Gem Uncirculated (Gem Unc) (UNC-65)

A note that is flawless, with the same freshness, crispness, and bright color as when first printed. It must be perfectly centered, with full margins, and free of any marks, blemishes, or traces of handling.

Choice Uncirculated (Ch Unc) (Unc-63)

An Uncirculated note that is fresher and brighter than the norm for its particular issue. Almost as nice as Gem Uncirculated but not quite there. Must be reasonably well centered.

Uncirculated (Unc) (Unc-60)

A note that shows no trace of circulation. It might not have perfect centering and might have one or more pinholes, counting smudges, or other evidence of improper handling, while still containing its original crispness. Sometimes large-size notes will be encountered which are obviously Uncirculated, but which have some tiny pinholes. It was customary in the onld days to spindle or pin notes together, and that is why so many Unc notes might show tiny pinholes. Such imperfections do not generally impair the choice appearance of a new note, and such notes are to be regarded as being UNC, although they generally command slightly lower prices than note in perfect condition.

About Uncirculated (AU) AU-50, AU-55 and AU-58

A bright, crisp note that appears new but upon close examination shows a trace of very light use, such as a corner fold or faint crease. About Uncirculated is a border line condition, applied to a note that may not be quite Uncirculated, but yet is obviously better than average Extremely Fine note. Such notes command a price only slightly below a new note and are highly desirable.

Extremely Fine (EF) (EF-40 and EF-45)

A note that shows some faint evidence of circulation, although it will be bright and retain nearly full crispness. It may have two or three minor folds or creases but no tears or stains and no discoloration.

Very Fine (VF) (VF-20, VF-25, VF-30 and VF 35)

A note that has been in circulation, but note actively or for long. It still retains some crispness and is still choice enough in its condition to be altogether desirable. It may show folds or creases, or some light smudges from the hands of a past generation. Sometime, Very Fine notes are the best available in certain rare issues, and they should accordingly be cherished just as much as Uncirculated notes.


Fine (F) (F-12 and F-15)

A Fine note shows evidence of much more circulation and has lost its crispness and very fine detail, and creases are more pronounced, although the note is not seriously soiled or stained.

Very Good (VG) (VG-8 and VG-10)

A note that has had considerable wear or circulation and may be limp, soiled, or dark in appearance, and might even have a small tear or two on an edge.

Good (G) (G-4)

A note that is baldy worn, with margin or body tears, frayed margins and missing corners.

Notes regarding grading:

In general, discriminating collectors will not acquire Fine or lower grade notes because they have lost their aesthetic appeal, but this generally applies only to common notes. However, a really rare note has a ready market even in Good condition, because it may not otherwise exist, or if it is choice, will have an extremely high price commensurate with its great rarity.

Regarding Improving or repairing currency: such improvements are generally accepted and should always be mentioned when offered for sale whether by an auctioneer or a dealer; anything else is a misrepresentatation.
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I actually like this system and may adopt it myself for use here in Canada. One of the big take aways here is that not all UNC are treated the same, some UNC 65's will command strong premiums over an UNC 60 (remind you of say, umm coins?).

I have seen use of an UNC 67 as well (such as the note Rick started this thread with) which is described as follows:

Superb Crisp Uncirculated-67: A nearly flawless note with perfect centering. Full wide margins all around. Colors are totally bright, crisp and vibrant. Quality is outstanding.
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You can all draw your own conclusions as to where the Canadian market may be headed one day. When we say a note is aEF, do we mean VF-35 to VF-39?

Food for thought.

Troy.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2005, 12:22:36 pm by TheMonetaryMan »
Tom
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2005, 01:49:10 pm »

I like that grading better than this grading standard.
http://www.canadiancurrencygradingservice.com/standards.htm

Tom
Steve11
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2005, 02:01:25 pm »

UNC! with pinholes and "Shows some signs of handling or wear"" may not be an accurate quote but thats the gist of what I read for MS60...come on!! SHOWS SIGNS OF WEAR !!! and PINHOLES for an uncirculated note! not gonna be anything I purchase thats for sure...
TheMonetaryMan
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2005, 02:01:29 pm »

10-4 Tom,

The Friedberg's have set a global standard over 47 years in Gold coins and their reputation impeccable so I expect the adoption of their ideas to be widely accepted in paper as well.

I like the focus on comparing UNC notes, it makes sense given the current intense focus on determining what mint state (MS) a coin is in.

As I can see from one reaction already I suppose for some a sudden awareness of what is happening elsewhere will echo the allegory of the cave in Plato's "Republic".

Troy
« Last Edit: September 18, 2005, 02:08:05 pm by TheMonetaryMan »
Tom
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2005, 02:07:21 pm »

I guess Troy.....  what ever you said means...   ???

Tom
TheMonetaryMan
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2005, 02:09:22 pm »

Come on Tom,

Not helping translate this one, Plato would roll in his grave, what's left of him anyway after 2352 years!

Smiles.

Troy
« Last Edit: September 18, 2005, 02:33:14 pm by TheMonetaryMan »
OleDon
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2005, 07:19:01 pm »

While a three-UNCs US style system has some attraction let us not think it will in anyway eliminate abuse. I suspect we will naturally move toward that as we have with coins. I am already using terms like "Gem" and "Original", trying to differentiate one UNC versus another. There are many grades within UNC. I can see myself using the three-part system, though it would be much better to be an industry-wide or hobby-wide decision.

Third-party graded notes are absolutely no guarantee of accurate grading. There are several systems at work in the USA. Some I trust generally, some are useless. I have seen third-party graded UNC-63's with a centre fold evident while standing up at a table and looking through the case glass.

Collectors have been abused so much they are desiring that third-party apparent independence. But some graders are dealers too. Is that a conflict ? There are arguments both ways.

Collectors need to know there is no substitute for personally learning to grade. Perhaps show operators and the CPMS could start doing some seminars ? The collector would be educated both as to grading and the fact that there is and will be some judgment and subjectivity to it. Always and forever - BUYER BEWARE ! We can help a lot with grading education though - that could be THE most important step.
Don
 

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