Report the "Gold Flag" fiasco

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

I have reported a seller of the so called "gold flag" centenial note and I encourage all those members who are concerned what these "Rackateers" are doing to the hobby - to do the same!

Although it may not technically fall under "Counterfeit" I have reported it as such.  Although the sellers admit the note is overprinted their claims that only 5000 have been printed is misleading. One would think the notes originate from BOC.  I will be informing them of this business.

Whether an actual positive outcome occurs remains to be seen.  However, we should consider what this kind of misrepresentation does to the whole reputation of collecting paper money.  It is especially bad for this hobby!  There will be many "burned" newbies who will be resentful and wary of legitimate dealers in the future (that's if they don't just drop the hobby altogether)

James

The note can and should be sold as long it is decribed as an after market printing, that is the flag printed does not originate with the Bank of Canada and is not authorized by them. Any good printer can add such trash to a banknote. Some years ago, I printed up several hundred "business cards" printed on notes of Yugoslavia.

Rick

It is on a 1967 $1 if anyone  needs to know. I found it too.

I disagree Rick.

This note should not be sold even if the seller states its an overprint (or any of the conditions you point out).  The uninitiated is not wise to such tampering, and to the worthlessness of such an item.

Any good printer can add such trash to a banknote.

I'm surprised that any dealer would support such a "trashy" product.  
It is a blemish on the whole hobby of collecting Canadian banknotes.  

Now a similar scheme is occuring over the $2.00 note with a polar bear overprint.  Someone has a ream of $2.00 (like the 67 $1) perhaps worth $3- $5 (at best though no one will buy them) and stamps them with a bear image claiming they're some sort of souvenir collector's item.  It is exceptionally exploitive and quite disgusting, and I'm not the only person who feels this way:

Here's what the BOC Currency museum has to say:

Mr. Baldwin,

Thank you for your letter.  The Bank of Canada shares your concern.  We are well aware of this situation, and the matter has been directed to the bank's legal department.

You are quite correct in that the Bank of Canada has never issued or authorized the issue of "gold flag" or other likewise additionally adorned bank notes.  Although experienced numismatists and collectors may be aware of this type of fraud and know enough to stay clear, many "novice" collectors are not and may be tempted with what they are led to believe is a great deal.

The Bank of Canada does not endorse or in any way acknowledge the legitimacy of the claims put forward by the sellers of these tampered "gold flag" notes.

Thank you for your concern.

Sincerely,

John Inca Anderson
 
Musée de la monnaie| Currency Museum
Banque du Canada| Bank of Canada (Ottawa)
tel: (613) 782-7004
fax: (613) 782-7761

I would just like to add that these 1967 (GOLD LEAF) phoney notes are selling from $30 to $50!

It is anyone's guess what the $2.00 racket will fetch for these unscrupulous characters.

And as you can see IT IS FRAUD when you tamper with an original print and pass if off as something it is not

I would like to see our hobby grow -- not implode on itself -- simply because a few shady characters have decided to rip off the gullible new comers.  

Although many collectors may continue to have a lassez-faire attitude towards this kind of practice -- you should reconsider.  If everyone keeps their mouths shut this practice will continue and worsen.  It only takes a few -- perhaps a 1/2 dozen complaints-- and we'll see such practices cease and desist.

I encourage any concerned collector to voice their opinion ASAP.  The Bank of Canada, the Currency Museum, and Ebay are all looking into it.  If they think its a minor problem it will continue.

Think about it.

James

I have to agree with walktothewater on this one. Although stated the flag is an overprint it does not mention the fact that the after market overprint does NOT originate from the Bank of Canada. Furthermore, in the description it is written that only 5000 were issued deceiving an individual, in this situation a novice collector, to think that this note is super rare. A note that catalogues for $5 selling for, in some cases, well over $50 means that the buyer is clearly mislead! Please understand rscoins that I am not starting an argument with you at all. I agree with your point that as long as an item is described appropriately it's fair game. I just think that the seller should clearly mention the fact that the overprint was performed by a third party and not the BOC, and also get ride of that limited 5000 issued statement which confuses one to believe that this note is rare. But then again this is only my humble opinion…

I think we should cut and paste the above note from BofC to bidders on gold leaf auctions.

I did mine for tonight. I sent an E Bay message to the current winning bidder for a Gold Flag $1 bill, and included a link to this forum with the BoC letter. I almost bought on of tthe $2's. Lost the item, got a second chance offer and did some looking. I found an old Gold Flag discussion and let it pass.

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I also have a confession to make I almost purchase one of the $2 notes with the polar bear stamp. It was listed as a rare $2 prototype (It was one of the first listed on ebay, and I thought it was very rare)   I'd be very embarrassed if I purchases this note, but I did some research and found out that it wasn't a prototype. That's the reason I get mad when I see these notes, since I almost got ripped off and now I do not want anyone else to.

The thing that makes it so obvious (to me) that the $2s are fabrications is that the notes are printed with Bonin/Thiessen or Thiessen/Crow signature sets, which are well over 10 years old. Yet the overprints are dated "1996 2006" which means that they would have to have been made this year or last year. If so, they would have featured the signatures of Jenkins/Dodge. Plus, the Bank of Canada would have made a really big deal about this if they were to ever even consider issuing such a commemorative note, which they haven't done since 1967.

Anyway, I've written an eBay guide on this subject. Please click the following link and review it. At the bottom, vote Yes! when asked if the guide was helpful. (Click here!)

Also, I've reported all of tonight's gold flag/gold seal listings as counterfeits.

We can do what we can, and then we watch what happens.

Perhaps if someone on this forum has purchased one of these notes, they could showcase it on E-bay for 1 million dollars, and discuss in detail, how the note is made, and fraudulantly decieving. That would certainly educate anyone interested in paper money on E-bay.

In fact, I would more than gladly cover any fees incurred in doing so.


Manny

Who says someone actually needs to PURCHASE one of these notes? Just display the images in an auction. In the unlikely event that someone really wants to pay a million bucks to buy one, then you flat out refuse on moral grounds. If they push it, buy one and then resell for a million bucks... lol

Thanks for all those concerned who've expressed their opinions on this subject.  It is heartening to see dialogue emerge over a shameful practice occurring on eBay today.  It's also great to see so many concerned collectors on the same page!    

However the idea that we

...should cut and paste the above note from BofC to bidders on gold leaf auctions.

would be extremely time consuming and a band aid solution
or

showcase it on E-bay for 1 million dollars

won't stop the situation  (though it is a cool idea!)

I'm sure I'm not the only concerned collector who's reported these items to eBay.  I'm beginning to believe they need outside pressure, on top of more people reporting it, as well as bad publicity.  With bad publicity a person risks being banned from using eBay (which is not in our best interest).  After all, large organizations have been known to fight back when they're hampered from making profits (they take a cut off this gold flag action!)  

Its only in eBay's best interest TO STOP the sales of these PHONY Gold Flag NOTES -- if we join together to point out that its a fraudulent item, continue to contact BOC, the currency museum, people who've purchased the notes, etc.  To continue putting on the "heat"

And to all those who've already helped --

THANKS!!!!

James

The thing is, people cannot be protected from themselves. I let a few people know last night that they weren't bidding on BoC special edition notes. I got a thank you back, and I noticed in one case, the user did not bid again after being out bid. I also got a reply that basicly told me to go away as it was his own choice to bid on the item if he wanted to. Not my money, ok, have at it. I'm wondering if a buzz about these bills hasn't started to make them a collectable on their own out of speculation. The market price has doubled and tripled for these in the last two to three months. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when one of those bills get brought into a bricks and morter store to be sold and the owner finds out his $50 purchase isn't even worth the UNC price anymore.

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I have always thought this was something that could turn a new or young collectors away from this great hobby after realizing they were taken advantage of. It is the same as those error notes that were hand cut from sheets. I still know some of the sellers that used to sell those and I refuse to bid on any of there items.
     I had put some minor error notes up awhile back and got an email from one of these sellers asking what the error was and my response was"well it's not as easy to see like if you were to cut your own error from a sheet" that shut him up.