Report the "Gold Flag" fiasco

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

And now there are currently three gold flag notes online. Reported.

Thanks for this thread (and the eBay guide).  I've been watching these frauds for months.  I fail to understand how any collector would believe a group of banknotes almost 40 years old could suddenly appear with the added flag or polar bear without any prior knowledge.  It amazes me to see the prices aked (and bid), for what is actually a defaced banknote.  I also have asked some of the sellers early on about the source and validity of these things.  Their lack of response was clear evidence of the phoney character of the overprints.  Do any of the forum members have information where the banknotes came from?

blumax
Florida

My guess, some guy with a stamp and a lot of useless notes to sell  

Welcome to the forums blumax.

Gold flag count on ebay: 5!

I just sent in a couple of questions about the gold flag note currently on ebay. I will post them if the seller replies.

Rick

Reported the two newest ones. Told you this was far from over.

I spoke to one of the sellers of the gold flag notes no names mentioned. The reason I spoke to him is because I knew him. He mention that he was unaware that these notes were ‘fraudulent’ and says that he just wanted to sell them since he purchased them earlier, years back, and wanted to sell them. O well, at least the percentage of notes being offered on ebay has drop dramatically - progress has been made

Reported the two newest ones.  

BWJM, what do you mean reported? Does that mean you spoke to the seller or reported the seller to ebay?

I mean using the "Report this item" link at the bottom of the auctions and claiming it to be a counterfeit or something. (Going for the best match rather than an exact one).

Seems there are some people with an agenda to quash the sale of anything that they can't either control or reap a profit from.

Actually it is quite the opposite, anyone can purchase a stamp and create an additional 5000 of these 'limited' and 'desirable' notes and laugh all the way to the bank - the difference is they choose not to. I do agree that if the note was properly marketed it could be sold legitimately, but I am not sure who would be willing to purchase a defaced note. Though clever, it is still fraud. The limited quantity, as stated by the sellers is misleading and the bill is made out to be something that it is not - rare.  

Could you tell me how the gold flag is attached? Is it printed or glued in place?

Where do you get the number of 5000 printed? Printed by whom?

Rick


i got the number 5000 from the five different people that i bought these bills from. that's what i'm going by. i don't want all five so i'm selling some. if you feel the paper where the flag is. it feels just like the rest of the bill. pretty good job i'd say. maybe they are worth more money just because of what they are and some people might just want to have them.thanks for writing. (name removed)

That's exactly it, no one knows how many there is. The 5000 quantity comes from all of the sellers, though where it originated no one knows. My guess is that the individual that made these bills only made 5000 of them or a seller of these bills stated that there was only 5000 printed to entice collectors to purchase the note.

The flag is placed onto the note via a stamp, I have also seen 'alleged' error gold flag notes where the flag is 'misplaced' elsewhere on the note.

The previous posting was my question to the seller, and his answer. His answer appears to show that the flag is printed, either with an inked stamp or from a colour printer. He has no real answer to the questions, I only asked him as he currently has a listing on eBay.

Rick

Rachelsprivates:

I understand the value of being a "devil's advocate" especially for topics worthy of debate.  However, in this case, auctioning the so-called "rare gold flag centennial note" or "limited edition" gold flag note, really shouldn't be a topic for debate simply because the BOC has had nothing to do with its issue.  

Not only were 12,000,000 notes printed with no serial (but dates) but it turns out they were hoarded by Canadians.  Even today's book of $5.00 is probably inflated.  BOC labels these notes "[highlight]novelty items[/highlight]" which is almost like degrading the bill to a good copy of an old note (which has been done in the US and they're worthless to most collectors).  BOC also calls this kind of activity [highlight]"fraudulent"[/highlight] since the stamping/over-print was never authorized by the bank.

So whether a person has actually stamped 5000 (or 500) it simply doesn't matter either way.  

This item is not collectible and shouldn't even be on eBay

Although some sellers state these notes have a gold flag "overprint" the general gist of their sales pitch is that these notes are rare and exceptionally collectible.  

Its like passing off a fake Rolex as the genuine article.  I have never seen one of these notes being reported as 1 of 12 million printed with a BV of approximately $5.00 even though most dealers/collectors would be hard pressed to give you face for the note.  

What I think we are now seeing is some of the "victims" who bought the bills, trying to unload them in face of the facts.

There wouldn't be a problem with these collectible items if they were just marketed properly.  Someone thought of a clever idea to market otherwise worthless notes.

Yes, I am well aware that 1967 notes w/o serial numbers catalogue for $5 in Unc, but who buys these things anyway?

Seems there are some people with an agenda to quash the sale of anything that they can't either control or reap a profit from.

I'm not playing devil's advocate, just trying to present a another point of view with the hopes of striking a balanced debate.  

Hiya Rachel.....
The only problem with it is the seller of MOST of the FLAGS + BEARS and in my opinion
likely the maker of the stamp makes the auction sound as if this is some special
BOC issue. Using the 5000 number. I bet there aren't more than a few hundred around
maybe much less.

In order for something to be marketed PROPERLY in must be markted HONESTLY.

Well just to rebuttal the brick hunter statement. First the brick hunters find a suspected range and than the BOC confirms those ranges. There has been many situations where someone has claimed that they found a range but the Bank of Canada did not confirm the suspected range. So in short this leaves little to no room for bias.

As for the quote from the movie, very funny