Missing Circle notes QUESTION!

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

Anyone have any idea why Missing circle notes are not in the catalogue?a) not important or b) past the cut off c) inconclusive evidence?
Huds

I agree....  :-?

They are well known....

I would think [size=20]A[/size]

and hopefully not just because I think so!

I can't believe it's because they're not important.  They're certainly more intriguing than some of the so called error notes containing a micro-blob of stray ink splatter.  I would say (c) inconclusive, although there doesn't appear to be much discussion anymore.

Well,  

We could shed some light on the matter an hopefully get this possibly included for 20th Edition.  :-/

Everyone knows about these notes, they are nothing new, and they have commanded a premium in the market.  

What kind of premium do you think that these notes command? What about the notes with 40% - 60% missing circles, do they command much premium? I have a few of these missing circle notes but I am not sure what they are worth (I never really followed the missing circle variety) All help would be much appreciated

From what I have seen and traded over the last year, the going zone is about $30 ea (as in sticker price in a dealers showcase). That isfor the 40-50% Missing circle visible.

I have no info for the value of the TWO missing circles notes.

Someone out here has a ton of information on them, and ranges and availability.  I do not remember who it was.

Alright Huds, so $30 each. What about if the note is more expensive? For instance an insert, changeover or short run. What would the price of a 2000 FDY  or a 2001 FEE go for with a missing circle? Would you just add $30 to the price of the note being sold?

Well, just like radars...

My BEK 2003 radar, is it worth $30, or is it worth a few hundred more than that - like Cat. value (and maybe plus $30)
I think in cases like that, the "premium" is less of the focus, so should carry less weight ofthe price.

Radars, missing circles, and other side stuff like that all kind of get similar pricing schemes, based on the market and how people respond to those notes for buying and selling from what I have seen.

Low FEE Missing circle  for example-- Just take into account how many there are (possible). Take that versus the FEC missing circle, which is more common I believe.
More notes= higher supply= lower price (price also due to item's popularity of course)

Well Oli, you don't have to worry about an FDY with a missing circle, as the variety didn't start till prefix FEB!
JWS

The missing circle is not an error.  It simply is an anomaly, or variation seen due to a slight shift of the pattern in that little zone where we see them.  They're considered to be quite common so no one is getting overly excited about them.

Yes, dealers are asking about $30 for a common variety (prefix) with a partial or full missing circle...but whether they're actually selling them for that is hard to say. Incidently, that's 5- $10 over book.  Dealers do add an additional $30 to most rarer notes, but again whether this is getting them anywhere is up to the buying public.
 
I bought a 2001 FEE last year for $120.  The same dealer offered me a missing circle FEE for $150, but I chose the less exensive of the 2.   The condition of the note I bought is truly a GEM so I felt like I got a great deal.  I doubt I'll be slapping myself on the side of the head for that missing missing circle FEE I could have owned!

Occassionaly you will see missing circle inserts go for auction and they occassionaly command quite a price, but I'm not sure whether this is due to hype or to real desire for this note.  I'm sure its all speculation at this point.  Lots of collectors today are dying for something a bit different...so maybe that's why the hype over the missing circle.  However, after the lost prefixes, I'm sure the missing circle hype has somewhat fizzled.

Occassionaly you will see missing circle inserts go for auction and they occassionaly command quite a price, but I'm not sure whether this is due to hype or to real desire for this note.  I'm sure its all speculation at this point.  Lots of collectors today are dying for something a bit different...so maybe that's why the hype over the missing circle.  However, after the lost prefixes, I'm sure the missing circle hype has somewhat fizzled

Apparently there is a growing body of collectors who are indeed interested in only collecting missing circle variety $10

JWS and Sudzee have been keeping track of the missing circle varieties, and know more about them than a lot of other collectors.

We should probably see a change in the next Charlton, since interest is there.

The missing circle is not an error.  It simply is an anomaly

Interesting take on it. As far as I can tell, it is an error in that most notes do show the circles there even when shifted while some notes do not show the circles when shifted. To me that would indicate a difference in the plates used to print them. Some plates must have been missing these circles on some, but not all, of the positions.

I believe JWS has an interesting article pending for the CPMS newsletter on this subject.

Without stealing his thunder, I believe that he concludes that the missing circles are on the left-most column of 10 notes on a 40/on sheet, meaning that of the earliest affected prefixes, there was a theorhetical yeild of about 25% missing circles. However, since it was along the cutting margin, the actual yeild was much lower.

As far as I can tell, it is an error in that most notes do show the circles there even when shifted

Would you consider missing BPN errors?

At the Paris show John referred to the missing circle as an "anomaly"  An anomaly means an "irregularity," or something not seen often.  I think its a most fitting description of the missing circle regardless of how it was created. It certainly is not a dramatic printing error.

I think if 15 to 25% of $10 prefix demonstrate a missing circle (which is not an error in the classic sense), than that would qualify as an anomaly.

The missing circle certainly cannot be compared to
1) "missing serial numbers"  (or mismatched or any type of serial number error)
2) missing gold leafs
3) missing partial printing (eg "ghost" notes)
4) offset printing errors
or any of the errors we're familiar with

All of the above examples are extremely rarely seen.