grading AGAIN

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

How is it possible to have a note that is "CHOICE very fine"?
What the heck is Choice supposed to mean?  Help please....

We are starting to see the word "choice, Gem"  more and more often.  There are people out there who think that using the words discribed above will bring higher premiums and yes they do.  The unfortuante ting is the end user usually has a sinking feeling and a "beaten " Feeling.

Maybe we should give an opinion of what we regard as choice, gem, Unc, etc

Here are my thoughts   There should be 3 grades of notes.  This is a very subjective subject and everyone has their thoughts.  I can respect everyones opinions but this will alway be a little misty in finding a happy medium.  If grading  companies  adapted a standard method that was recognized as as a  accepted standard by the very knowlegable  CPMF and CPMS groups That would be fantastic.
 Please forgive me if I give the wrong numbers as this is new to a lot of other people


Unc  or unc 61
You go to get a new bundle of notes and it comes right from the distribution/bank of canada and does not go into circulation . The notes may have the cutting crease, or any slight flaws that may be from the printers.  THere are no damaged corners,  Ripples or waves are possible.

Gem or choice unc or Unc 63
 a unc 61 note with  no ripple blemish creases or flaws in it at all.  This note  is like very rare in maybe the collectors  or searcher can find 1 note in 1000.  If that.  The note has embossing and everything that is suppose to lift off the note does.    Centering,  is all perfect.  I am not saying this is impossible but very rare and would desire a slightly higher premium.


Unconceivalbe Unc 65-67
This not I believe is unattainable.  Remember we heard of the perfect note.  I still am not sure what the perfect note is.    let say it is attainable.  That would mean it begins literally from when the paper is produced to setup to printing to inspecting to cutting to packaging to delivery to when someone like us who get the note and with perfect gloves on take this note out of the bundle and put it in the perfect holder.  Too may variables to be attainable.  maybe I am being a little tough but  if you warrant a  much higher premium.  You may want to back it up with these hard facts.  

What would be great if we could all gather and each person brings a note from g-unc 65-67 and under inspection with a group of us come up with hopefully a happy medium.  This could be the information that could be used for the future in grading paper money.

What are your thoughts

Polarbear

All I know is when I see a grade that says CHOICE anything now, it looks like an easy upsell. Very dissapointing.  I have a CHOICE VG note, I "chose" to pull it out of my wallet after about 6 years of abuse.   Im only asking double BV on it.  

Polerbear, your last paragraph hits home good. I agree.

For those of us who are new to this hobby and still working on the whole grading process, comments like Choice, or GEM merely tell me to stay away or bid less. Especially is there is not a really good picture of the note in question. I kind of like the system in the Charlton Guide, simple and easy. I really don't care what system is used, as long as it is the standard that everyone uses.

 [smiley=beer.gif]

Consider a note that has a BV of $1000 in UNC and $500 in AU.

How much would you pay for this note if it were:

1) UNC, perfect, no way to improve it
2) UNC, as in number 1, but a few ripples "as made"
3) had a single counting crease but was otherwise UNC
4) had two counting creases but was otherwise UNC
5) had three counting creases but was otherwise UNC

According to the catalogue, number 1 and number 2 would be the same, and both worth $1,000.  See the problem?

Also notice that numbers 3, 4, and 5 above are all "identical" by the current grading standards and would be classified as AU, each with a book value of $500.  Of course, we can all see the folly of that system.  Who wouldn't want number 3 over number 5 if both were offered at the same price?

A more precise method of grading would only help the hobby, as long as it were universally accepted.  As I have said before, the grading system in use should fit the notes in question, not the other way around.

Seth I agree as well with you.
It is not just someone saying it, the fact is that it is actually a GRADING COMPANY that has this on their note holder  .  I don't remember which one it is but if I find the picture... (it was not on ebay).  It is this fact that caused me to start this thread.  

Anyway, I find that alarming!  We all know about the caution of the "choice" description on ebay with a bad picture lol... buyer beware right?   If the slabbed notes are what is in demand, but they use terms like this, then this is not good.  
Maybe I am wrong, but Choice (and GEM) were reserved for notes that were excessivly perfect - like it is UNC, but it is so nice that it is beyond UNC.

I just cannot see how slabbing notes with words like CHOICE VF will do anything good.  
Please more opinions, this is kind of serious, since many new collectors are apparantly turning to slabbed notes.

This is a matter of great concern to many,obviously controversial.

I purchased a PGM Unc 68 DF from Don O.I wonder what that would be,Choice,Gem,.....

Must tell you paid quite the premium for the note,but I also sell at large premiums.Seems the market is strong,but glad I don't have to make a living doing it

IMO I think that if the drop in price from an Unc note to an Au note wasn't 40 or 50% that we really wouldn't have this problem. People would then be less inclined to overgrade. Half of the Unc notes out there are probably Au anyways.

remember, it's just my opinion

Scott

Interesting observation only4teeth.

But doesn't that statement "Half of the Unc notes out there are probably Au anyways." assume something that is unproven,or are there stats on this?
Mine better not be or there's alotta hel to pay!lol.
I buy only Unc notes(or so I think!!) :-/
 

LOL, sorry, what I meant to say is that alot of people just don't know how to grade. Half might be stretching it. I might even be one of them.   It was about two years ago when I learned  to hold a bill up to the light to check it. I used to just check by feel. I had to replace a good portion of notes that I bought when I started collecting.

Whew! I'll recap the bottle of pills LOL!

Whew! I'll recap the bottle of pills LOL!

What? No high buildings around??    

Why doesn't the Bank of Canada make special notes for the collector like the mint makes "proof" coin sets. I.e., they could make special printing plates that are flawless, carefully control all levels of printing and production, cutting. Notes wouldn't be bundled they would be cut perfectly and handled by a person with gloves as somebody suggested or a machine to put them in special sealed cases or covers. Also ensure there is no way the notes get damaged in any way during the whole production sequence when the note is made. Frankly, I get new notes from the ATM and that's good enough for me to keep a few that I consider UNC. I don't care if the foil part rippled the note a bit or the security thread made a slight indent in the side of the note. As long as it doesn't have any creases, folds and sharp corners and fresh looking, that's good enough.

I think that's what the lasting impression sets were for. We all know how poorly that turned out.

LOL ya the biggest rip off who didnt get taken there?