LOST/STOLEN $1 1954 DEVIL'S FACE NOTES

News: Welcome to the Canadian Paper Money Forum.

It's a bit late to report this loss/theft but I thought there's no harm in doing so as it may save other Forum members some grief in the future.

In May 2005 (18 months ago) I sold a consecutive Unc pair of $1 1954 Devil's Face (Coyne-Towers) notes on eBay (Serial #C/A 4971953 & 4971954). They sold for US$167. The buyer lives in Vancouver, BC, and he paid by Paypal. However, he selected the regular shipping (buyer's risk) option rather than the more expensive Tracked Post option. Against my better judgment I sent the notes to him by regular uninsured post. He subsequently claimed that he never received the notes. He then filed a dispute with Paypal and Paypal unilaterally gave him a full refund of the $167.

I've attached a scan of the lost/stolen notes just for the record. Someone probably has them in his/her collection. I'm not seeking the return of the notes as I cannot prove that they were mine in the first place now that the lot has disappeared from eBay's system. However, I would be very interested to know if the notes ever turned up as the buyer was at the centre of a high-profile Vancouver fraud case at the time and I couldn't help developing certain suspicions ......

Anyway, the moral of this story is to always use Tracked shipping when sending more expensive items that have been paid for by Paypal. I learnt my lesson the hard way .....

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Tracked shipping cost 1$ at Canada post. You can ask it on regular mail. You could not afford it?

I can't find any evidence of this. Perhaps you are thinking of Registered Mail, which is regular postage plus C$6.50 for domestic mail.

Tracked shipping cost 1$ at Canada post. You can ask it on regular mail. You could not afford it?

Maybe you are talking about the "Signature required" sticker for ExpressPost packages?  You can either send an ExpressPost envelope without the recipient having to sign for it, or pay $1 extra for the sticker so the package has to be signed for.

Bitburger, do you mean that for regular lettermail with a 51-cent stamp on it, you can require the receiver to sign for it by purchasing and attaching a "Signature required" sticker to the envelope?

In the US, apparently you can get delivery confirmation on an item mailed with regular mail but sent in a brown bubble envelope that makes it look more like a parcel. I was never aware of this until I saw it. You cannot get insurance on a letter but again, if put in a brown padded envelope will qualify for insurance. Then again, you take the risk that the item will get mixed in the parcels and actually get lost or damaged while it may have been OK as a letter.

Nowadays I always send more valuable items by Express Tracked Post. The cost varies between about CDN$8.00 and $13.00 depending on the shipping destination. Nominal insurance is included but additional insurance is available at extra cost.

that is why I do not pay or accept payment by paypal they are a scam from the sellers perspective since it was truely the buyers fualt for cheaping out on postage

Nowadays I always send more valuable items by Express Tracked Post. The cost varies between about CDN$8.00 and $13.00 depending on the shipping destination. Nominal insurance is included but additional insurance is available at extra cost.

Hi Ottawa,

Unfortunately Canada Post does not insure bank notes.  As an eBayer buyer I always ask for insurance on pricier items and some sellers have indicated that Canada Post doesn't insure paper currency, they have to obtain insurance separately.

I have confirmed this information on Canada Post's website.  The link is http://www.canadapost.ca/personal/tools/pg/terms/gtc20-e.asp.

If you scroll down to Section 20.3 you will see the following:

"20.3 Exclusions and Restrictions on Certain Items  
  Notwithstanding anything to the contrary and regardless of whether other Items were included in the shipment:
  (a) Canada Post shall have no liability for loss or damage of shipments containing bank notes, stocks, bonds, negotiable premium coupons, or other securities negotiable by the bearer, coupons (excluding gift certificates), lottery tickets, trading stamps, travellers’ cheques, or any unacceptable item (including non mailable items such as but not limited to dangerous goods, or improperly packaged items) as defined in the Canada Postal Guide.  
  (b) The maximum amount payable by Canada Post is:
    i.  $500 for shipments containing coins, jewellery, manufactured and non-manufactured precious stones and metals, cancelled or uncancelled postage stamps, and
    ii. $100 for shipments containing gift certificates or phone cards.
  (c) Shipments containing glass or ceramic items, items of a perishable nature, or items requiring temperature controls are subject to coverage for loss but not for damage."

Funny how they discriminate against us paper collectors...they will cover coins and postage stamps, but not paper money!  

Unfortunately Canada Post does not insure bank notes. ....... I have confirmed this information on Canada Post's website.  ......... (a) Canada Post shall have no liability for loss or damage of shipments containing bank notes, stocks, bonds, negotiable premium coupons, .......

Thanks for the heads-up! I suspect that when Canada Post prepared its list of restrictions it had bulk lots of modern circulating currency in mind. I don't think they had one or two obsolete notes in mind. Perhaps it would be possible to get round the stated restriction by referring to obsolete notes as "historical documents", "printed papers", or something like that ... ?  

I use Express Post for tracking purposes only and not for any insurance that may or may not be included. I have not incurred any losses yet.

I have often wondered what would be the safer method for sending a $10,000 note --- (1) by uninsured Express Post with no declaration of value on the outside of the envelope, or (2) by private courier with a declaration on the outside that the envelope contains an item worth $10,000 .... !

In the US, I have only had 2 packages get lost and both were insured mail. So I wonder myself sometimes whether regular mail is now actually safer. But I guess it also goes back to my comment about the insured regular mail going with the parcels in the US where chance of getting lost is probably more. Registered mail is the safest means. In the US, they will insure registered mail for up to $25,000 for little additional cost because I guess the post office sends these so securely that the insurance involves no additional effort for them and for them is probably like free money for a service that is already being provided.

Funny how they discriminate against us paper collectors...they will cover coins and postage stamps, but not paper money!  

Yes, that is correct.  Previously, Canada Post did not insure coins.  However, since they became an official distributor of Royal Canadian Mint products, they in turn changed their insured rules on coins.  Thus, coins are insurable via Canada Post insurance.   Too bad, they do not sell Bank of Canada notes.

Well the first item I ever sold on E-bay was a bundle of 10 X-box video games. I sent them by expresspost with tracking number and $100 insurance which comes free to Whitby, which is about an hour away from me.

 The packing slip was marked video games, and it never arrived to its destination. According to the Canada Post tracking system, it actually never left the post office I dropped it off at. It still worked out for me, because the items were sold for $40, and Canada Post sent me a cheque for $108.

 But this experience has certainly left me wondering, whether I am better off with regular mail, or a detailed description package with tracking number. I think for anything expensive, insurance is certainly the way to go. I would probably mark it as a watercolor portrait or something, instead of currency.

So, then, Registered Mail both for delivery within Canada and to the US?  And if I may ask, how do you package an individual bank note for safe delivery -- sleeve, cardboard stiffeners, heavy cardboard envelope?  How do you make sure that Canada Post doesn't wreck it completely? (Can you tell that I'm embroiled in a dispute with them right now about a missing package?  )

Is tracking and signature enough to protect yourself?

huumm, actually, they (Canada Post) do sell Bank of Canada notes. They sell the "Impression Sets" of $5 and $10 notes.

In the US, apparently you can get delivery confirmation on an item mailed with regular mail but sent in a brown bubble envelope that makes it look more like a parcel. I was never aware of this until I saw it. You cannot get insurance on a letter but again, if put in a brown padded envelope will qualify for insurance. Then again, you take the risk that the item will get mixed in the parcels and actually get lost or damaged while it may have been OK as a letter.

Same with Canada post, but you have to ask it , they don't offer it