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Topic: New Journey $50 note  (Read 42509 times)
Jason
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« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2004, 12:11:27 am »

I am certainly not one to defend racism and anti-semitism, but objectively, one must also consider that William Lyon Mackenzie King was still a product of his times, and his attitudes were very commonplace during the era in which he lived and governed Canada.  He is Canada's longest-serving Prime Minister, and has been judged to be one of our very best, based on the positive accomplishments he achieved during his 22 years as our Prime Minister.  Before one judges him, I think one needs to weigh in all of the facts--the good as well as the bad.  And as he's been deceased for over half a century, perhaps he should NOT be judged by 21st Century values.

PS: I know this post may provoke a lot of response, but I am not looking to pick a fight--just to offer a different opinion.
canada-hongkong
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« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2004, 12:19:51 am »

Quote
I am certainly not one to defend racism and anti-semitism, but objectively, one must also consider that William Lyon Mackenzie King was still a product of his times, and his attitudes were very commonplace during the era in which he lived and governed Canada.  He is Canada's longest-serving Prime Minister, and has been judged to be one of our very best, based on the positive accomplishments he achieved during his 22 years as our Prime Minister.  Before one judges him, I think one needs to weigh in all of the facts--the good as well as the bad.  And as he's been deceased for over half a century, perhaps he should NOT be judged by 21st Century values.

PS: I know this post may provoke a lot of response, but I am not looking to pick a fight--just to offer a different opinion.


Actually, even though I may have posted the most harsh comments over the new $50, I do somewhat agree with your thoughts, as King's mind was in the 40s, and he thought in that ear, which involved discrimination, when racism was acceptable, but now we judge King by 21st century standards, which might be rather unfair, However I still stand by my remarks that say King was a racist prime minister, who did many great things, but they couldn't compensate for his despicable actions.
Jason
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« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2004, 12:53:45 am »

I am glad that we do agree.  YES he was racist.  YES he was an anti-Semite.  However... YES he was an accomplished leader.  YES he made many positive contributions to Canada and to our history.

From there, I believe it is up to the individual to decide if the good outweighs the bad, or vice-versa.  I think much of this comes from who one is, how one feels, and what one thinks, as well as the weight on which one places certain aspects of our history.  Weighing everything I know of WLMK, I would say that I believe that the good does outweigh the bad.  Am I correct in saying so?  Absolutely!  Because my belief is my belief.  Can the people who disagree also have valid viewpoints?  Absolutely!  Because all viewpoints are valid!

I must say, I appreciate the opportunity to post an opinion and consider opposing viewpoints without being scolded or told off.  This is what I like BEST about posting here!  

J
jonathan
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« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2004, 01:04:13 pm »

You're right, Jason.  We should really think that the good, positive things MacKenzie King did for Canada do outweigh the negatives.  All the comments people are saying about the new $50 is just "utter nonsense." and people should enjoy the new $50 bill like it is a piece of paper, with the number 50 on it, and can be used to buy things (unless it is "phony").  A lot of Canadians who have a paycheque (or any cheque) to cash who want $100's, some tellers may not have ANY $100's and may have no choice other than to distribute $50's in lieu of $100's to the customer, and they will have to accept the new $50's (or any other $50's that remain legal tender).

I am very confident that the new $50 bill will not be disliked by the majority of Canada's population.  They probably won't even realize it.  They'll just think of the new $50 as a red piece of paper with the number 50 on it. :D

And that's my 99 cents worth.

Bye 4 now, Jonathan ;)

P.S.:  Will anybody on the forum please let me know if you are going to accept the new $50's when they come out?
Marc
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« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2004, 08:21:23 pm »

To 99% of people, it's money to spend, lol

Marc :)
jonathan
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« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2004, 10:15:35 pm »

THE FAMOUS FIVE AND THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS

Together, they are known as the Famous 5, the women who struggled to have women declared "persons" so they could be appointed to the Canadian Senate. Individually, each was a  prominent women's leader in her own right. On the following pages, we will meet Emily Murphy, Henrietta Muir Edwards, Louise McKinney, Irene Parlby, and Nellie McClung. We will learn about their private lives, as well as their public involvements and achievements. We will also learn about the major causes of the day, and why they were important.  

Female suffrage was achieved in Canada during the lifetime of these women. Each of them worked to gain for women the right to vote, and their efforts were instrumental in changing public perception about women's roles and rights. We will look at the arguments for and against allowing women to vote. We will also look at the groups involved in promoting female suffrage, and how and when and why women were granted the right to vote, and what happened next.  

The 'Persons' Case was another landmark victory for women, and it is the achievement for which we commemorate the Famous 5. We will examine the cause for which these women fought, and trace its progress through the early disappointment to the final victory, to the reactions and effects that resulted.  

Although achieving female suffrage and winning the 'Persons' Case were highlights of the period, other issues and causes were important to women in Canada during the first half of the 20th century. So, we will also examine the role of Prohibition and the Temperance movement, as well as the agitation for equal pay for equal work. We will also examine the laws surrounding women's property rights, as well as other major causes in the development of the young Dominion of Canada.  

FEMALE SUFFRAGE

Between 1914 and 1917, the female suffrage movement experienced rapid success in the four western provinces and in Ontario. This was due to a number of factors:

- The Canadian suffrage movement received both inspiration and strength from the suffrage movements in the United States and Britain.

- Women's associations, many established during the late 19th century, agitated for reform, especially in Ontario and Manitoba.

- Women's political and economic roles increased drastically during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

These factors, combined with the moral and social atmosphere that developed during World War I, the idealism surrounding the war effort, women stepping into positions vacated by servicemen, thus expanding their role, and politicians' growing awareness that their position on female suffrage could swing the vote in an election worked together to speed the process of getting women the vote to its inevitable conclusion.

The men and women who belonged to suffrage societies tended to be members of the Anglo-Saxon, Protestant middle-class. The leaders of these societies generally were highly educated professionals, or leaders of the social gospel movement, and their goal tended to be to preserve the British essence and heritage in Canada. Nevertheless, the suffrage movement in Canada, with its emphasis on the virtues of motherhood and its general interest in strengthening the family, and thereby improving society, appealed to the larger reform movement fermenting within the young Dominion.

Female suffrage was largely seen as a means to an end, not an end in itself. To reformers, female suffrage was a means of achieving other social reforms like prohibition, applied Christianity, child welfare, purity reform, and civic and education reform; to farm and labor groups, woman suffrage was a means of increasing their political clout; and to politicians, adopting the suffrage cause was seen as a means of either getting or keeping political power.


THE 'PERSONS' CASE

Today, with the equal rights of Canadian women ensured by the 1982 Constitution Act, it is difficult to remember that many basic rights were first won only seventy years ago.

Canadian women born before 1929 were generally considered to be "non-persons." Five governments stated that women were ineligible to be appointed to the Senate because they were not "persons." In fact, British Common Law stated they were:

"persons in the matter of pains and penalties, but not in the matter of rights and privileges."

A group of Alberta women - Emily Murphy, Henrietta Muir Edwards, Louise McKinney, Irene Parlby, and Nellie McClung - known as the Famous 5 - worked together to try to improve attitudes towards and conditions for women and to change the interpretation of the Canadian constitution to ensure women could participate in all aspects of public life.

In 1927, the Famous 5 persuaded Prime Minister MacKenzie King to ask the Canadian Supreme Court to clarify the word "persons" under the British North America Act of 1867. When the Canadian court rejected their argument on April 24, 1928, the Famous 5 persuaded the Government of Canada to appeal to the Judicial Committee of the British Privy Council. There, the Famous 5 won and on October 18, 1929, Canadian women were legally declared "persons" and eligible for appointment to the Senate.

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/famous5/achievements/achievements_index.html
« Last Edit: September 18, 2004, 10:22:38 pm by jonathan »
jonathan
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« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2004, 08:40:23 pm »

More from the "Famous Five and their achievements":

PROHIBITION

Prohibition came into effect in Alberta on July 1, 1916 as a result of a plebiscite, making Alberta the first province to enact prohibition. It ended in 1923, also as a result of a plebiscite, thus, the long struggle by temperance groups resulted in a disappointingly short-lived victory.

The issue of liquor control dates to the mid 1800's. By the 1860's and '70's, whiskey trading was destroying Native communities, as well as threatening settlement of the west. Thus, controlling liquor was one of the major purposes for which the Canadian Government formed the Northwest Mounted Police in1873. The first legislation aimed at controlling liquor in the Northwest Territories (of which Alberta was a part until 1905) was included in the Northwest Territories Act of 1875, but it had very little effect. In 1907, shortly after Alberta became a province, a new act controlling the sale of liquor was established, but it too fell short of the total prohibition that anti-liquor groups hoped for.  

As early as 1891, liquor control was a major election issue in the Northwest Territories. Prohibition campaigns by women's groups, like the  Women's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU), and the  United Farm Women of Alberta (UFWA) gathered momentum and increasing political influence during the early twentieth century. In fact, prohibition was one of the major planks in the woman suffrage campaign. Women like Louise McKinney—Superintendent of the Alberta WCTU's Department of  Scientific Temperance Instruction (STI), and President of Alberta's WCTU—and Irene Parlby—first President of the United Farm Women's Association—played a significant role in achieving Prohibition in Alberta.

Indeed, it may be argued that in 1917, the first year that women were allowed both to run for political office and to vote in Alberta, Louise McKinney made history as the first woman legislator to be elected in the British Empire largely as a result of her many years of campaigning for prohibition. The Prohibition and Suffrage movements had worked hand in hand, as female suffrage was viewed as necessary for the achievement of Prohibition. Because many of the same people supported both causes, it was only natural that Louise McKinney should earn their vote.

As early as 1904, Calgary MLA R.B. Bennett (future Prime Minister of Canada) realized how valuable the endorsement of prohibitionist women's groups could be. He promised support for WCTU goals, and received an endorsement from them in return. The political influence of the WCTU and the UFWA continued to grow, and their support became increasingly important for politicians in Alberta.

Of course,  not everyone supported prohibition.


PROHIBITION: ANTI-PROHIBITION BACKLASH


"From the crusade of a despised minority, a mark for good-natured ridicule rather than fear, the prohibition movement became a vast continental propaganda, backed by unlimited money, engineered by organized hypocrisy. Under the stress of war it masqueraded as the crowning effort of patriotism. The war over, it sits enthroned as a social tyranny, backed by the full force of the law, the like of which has not been seen in English-speaking countries since the fires died out at Smithfield."

—Stephen Leacock

Not everyone was a fan of Prohibition, but by 1919 all nine Canadian provinces had voted themselves dry, and had enacted legislation to enforce Prohibition. The Federal Government had also prohibited all import and transportation of intoxicating liquor by a Federal Order in Council under the War Measures Act. This outraged a certain segment of the population—among whom was Stephen Leacock. As with his views on the feminist movement (see Anti-Feminist Atmosphere), his views on prohibition were exactly opposite those espoused by the Famous 5.

In his 1919 essay entitled "The Tyranny of Prohibition"— written as a tract warning the people of England against the evils of enacting Prohibition—Leacock paints an unflattering view of Prohibitionists, and the motives underlying their activism. In it, he characterizes the the "drys" (prohibitionists) and the "wets" (anti-prohibitionists), and it is easy to see where his sympathies lie.  

Among the "drys," he identifies several types:

   * The "deeply religious, patriotic, and estimable people" who sincerely believe that enacting prohibition is "God's work"
   * Those who "desire to tyrannize and compel—to force the souls of other men to compliance with the narrow rigor of their own"
   * "Salaried enthusiasts, paid informers, the politicians seeking for votes"
   * "Ministers of the Gospel currying favor with the dominant section of their congregation"
   * "Business men and proprietors of newspapers whose profit lies in the hands of the prohibitionists to make or mar"
   * "The whole cohort of drunkards who can be relied upon to poll a vote in favor of prohibition in a mood of sentimental remorse"

In comparison, he portrays the "wets" as:

   * Scholarly, industrious men on faculty at the university
   * Many of Montreal's leading lawyers and doctors
   * Painters, artists, and literary men
   * Some members of the clergy "in days more cheerful than the present"

Leacock blamed war-time idealism for the success of prohibition. In the atmosphere of national solidarity, individual self-sacrifice, and moral reform that pervaded society during World War I ( 1914-1918 ), prohibition seemed to be a natural fit. He also blamed opportunistic politicians, who, recognizing the power wielded by women's groups, viewed prohibition as a means of getting the women's vote.

Though Leacock hated Prohibition, in his clear-eyed cynicism, he realized something that the Nellie McClungs and Louise McKinneys and Irene Parlbys of the prohibition movement did not:, prohibition was doomed to fail.

<<END OF ARTICLE>>

If you want to know more about the achievements of the Famous Five, go to...

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/famous5/achievements/prohibition.html

I hope this posting and the last posting will be helpful in learning about all the positive things the Famous Five have done for Canadians, and hopefully the new $50 bill will be enjoyable by many Canadians.

Later, Jonathan
« Last Edit: September 22, 2004, 12:44:58 am by jonathan »
JB-2007
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« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2004, 05:12:02 pm »

Is the 2004-$50 still to be unveilled Wednesday October 13 or has that been changed?
eyevet
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« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2004, 07:22:06 pm »

As far as I know there have been no change in plans for the unveiling or release date of the Journey $50.



Steve11
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« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2004, 09:07:04 pm »

Is it not wonderful that in todays politically correct stupidity we can look back on history and pick and choose who the "bad guys" are.

Lets then state that EVERYONE who ever lived prior to oct 3, 2004 was a horrible racist who doesn't deserve any of our respect,,acknowledgment..or give any of them any honour at all...only those currently alive and being very politically correct are honourable and acceptable.

History has a way of looking at events that is suppossed to be open honest and (heres the thought) IN CONTECT TO ITS TIME!!!

We do not vilify all Italians for the crucifiction of JC now do we?

ALL Germans are no longer held responsible for Hitler.

All Russians are not part of the Katian Forest...are they?

All VIKINGS are not hated by the English?

Are the iconoclastic and very homogenious Japanese still hated for Singapore, the Batan Death March?

Do we as "white" conquistadors still feel shame for the slaughter of the native american populations?

were these events despicable.yes. indeed they were...but for the "time" they happened (with certain exceptions) history must be taken in the context of its time and the practices of the era.

To impose our so called moralistic and oh so politically correct views on the past..is not only laughable but (now heres the bad bad word) STUPID!!!
freedomschoice
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« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2004, 11:48:08 pm »

Right on steve11. Plus when we re-write history by todays standards....how are furture generations to learn from the mistakes of the past. We turn villians into hero's and punish hero's today from history. A remarkable society that we live in now. We have begun to revise and gloss over so many important things that as a society made us stronger and I believe better as a nation. In being politically correct we are afraid to speak our minds and see the truth as it was and as it is so as not to offend some group or other. Oh well...what a pity.... you say only in canada eh???  

Jason
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« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2004, 04:45:10 am »

Bravo to Steve11 and to freedomschoice!  I agree wholeheartedly with you both--history can only be judged in the context in which it took place.  To borrow a quote from a film I saw: "Nobody thinks that they're a bad person."  Each individual, whether we believe them to be good or bad, acted according to his or her beliefs, which in each case were shaped by the world and the times in which he or she lived.

When 2004 is viewed in the context of history by those who have the perspective of several decades in the future... will they be able to say better than we can who was right and who was wrong?
Steve11
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« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2004, 05:06:49 am »

DO not get me wrong. THere have been and continue to be psychopaths and sociopaths in charge of both countries; institutions, etc. By way of example.. Sadam, Khadaffi, Moa Tse Tung, Schwartzkopf, Patton, Hitler, to an extent Bill Gates and Donald Trump.

What do they have in common? A desire to have things go their way and be damned to either the consequences or effects on anyone other than themselves.

Not necessairily a bad thing; when one is on the winning side..but can be horendous when on the loosing side.

All "Great People" are for better or worse total mental jerks LOL..they have to be.. or they wouldn't be great.

What we judge to be correct today; most of us would hafe our heads chopped from our bodies without thought 1000 years ago...500 years ago..and we would most assuradly be put into an assylum for the insane up to 100 years ago in the past.

History is simply that...history....pre/post judgment of events...is stupid...

Chairman Moa...force marched across China an army of 10s of thousands...killing thousands on his way to greater glory...he's a wicked person for doing this..a truly horrible person for forcing all those people to die for his dream...or is he? I dunno..at the time he had a choice..stay and die..or leave and die slowly,,with the chance to win....

anyway..enough of this...we will have the new 50..no matter how Politically Correct it is or it isn't...and I will never have one..other than as a radar .. so..thats that.
Marc
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« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2004, 09:48:13 am »

Quote
DO not get me wrong. THere have been and continue to be psychopaths and sociopaths in charge of both countries; institutions, etc. By way of example.. Sadam, Khadaffi, Moa Tse Tung, Schwartzkopf, Patton, Hitler, to an extent Bill Gates and Donald Trump.


Add Castro and Kim Jong Il to that list.

Marc :)
Slugboy
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« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2004, 06:45:28 pm »

Since the theme of the $50 note is "Nation Building", I really think they should have put some Canadian Railroad construction workers on the reverse. Many of the workers were from East Asian countries and were subjected to extremely harsh working conditions as the railroad was built during the 1800s. And their descendants didn't even get to vote until 1948!

Considering that the Railroad was so important to the growing Dominion, and that these labourers don't seem to get much credit (other than that one Heritage Minute commercial), the least we could do is commemorate them on the $50 bill. As is, the new notes are hardly representative of the many different cultures that helped build Canada.

Thoughts?
 

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