BCS - Banknote Certification Service

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Well no answer again for a second time but I'll give it another shot. 3 times a charm as they say.

Denis

I don't think there is all that much difference between TPGs.

I had a consecutive run of very nice BEKs. Grades returned were PMG-66, CCGS-65 ( Andy doesn't use 66 ) CCCS-66 and BCS-66. A few consecutive BEY 2.96 that came back as 66 from CCCS, BCS and PMG.

I had some disappointments from PMG as well. I submitted an nice unc *CD that returned as AU-58. A very nice BET came back as PMG-64. The best of a run of 4 gorgeous ATX came back as PMG-66 while the other 3 ( graded 4 months later ) came back as 67s.

There will always be inconsistencies among TPGs. Only time will tell which one collectors like the best.

Gary

Hmm, it is almost as though there is no real advantage to TPG then .....

I don't think there is all that much difference between TPGs.......
There will always be inconsistencies among TPGs. Only time will tell which one collectors like the best.
Gary

I understand that many people seem critical of PMG grading, but if you take into consideration the actual quantity of notes that they grade, is the number of notes that people find fault with only a Minuit portion?
I'm sure time will tell when other TPG's start to grade more notes...how many in proportion will be criticised???

FRIEDSQUID

I agree with you Gary, there will always be inconsistencies and it will be up to the collectors which TPG (if any) will be most desireable. However, from what I have seen at shows, ebay, private sales, etc. PMG is still the most recognizeable and well known TPG out there and people are still buying and selling PMG graded notes.  As for me, I have gotten notes graded by both PMG and BCS and I too have already seen issues with both.  However, in saying that I will still use both graders for certain items.
I will admit one thing, and that is Steve Bell (of BSC) is definitely providing GREAT customer service, and turn around time for any notes given to him and more than willing to take the time to help and explain any questions and/or issues you may have.
I will applaud him for that.....Keep up the good work Steve.

FRIEDSQUID 

BCS does have a nice holder.

It is stiff enough to protect the notes from being bent inadvertantly.

All notes are presented with serial number and identifier strip on the same side. PMG always inserts the front of each note with the identifier strip so, in the case of multicolour, bird and journey notes, one has to flip the holder over to verify the note is properly catalogued.

Steve catalogues each note fully and in the comment section includes important additional info eg: radar, changoeover and exceptional embossing.

Service is very good and BCS is local to us here in southern Ontario.

Check this link for the look at some of the descriptors:
http://gwfedora.tripod.com/bcs.jpg

Gary 

Well I got my notes back from BCS and I a quite happy. 

I made it in before the Paris show.  They Recieved them on Thursday last week and I got them back yesterday.   1 Week turnaround.

All the notes came back with a grade I had expected pretty much.

A few notes were a bit lower than I thought they would be.  I probably would not of sent them in.  But I am still learning in the grading area.

I do really like the holders.  As mentioned above.  Very professional looking and sturdy.  A few of my Multicolor series even came back with "exceptional embossing"

I feel that from what I have read and seend BCS is much better than PMG graded notes IMO. 

I came across several notes up for auction last week graded PMG GEM66 on E-Bay in which you could clear as day see mutiple bends in the notes. 

Oh well.. I will just say I am pleased with customer service and BCS in General from my own experience.

I will most likely send a few more notes down the road to be graded.

I can't wait to see what my notes end up being graded as.  I dropped in to see Steve today and gave him 5 replacement notes that aside from being handled slightly have been in their holders for a long time.  Unfortunately I only had one of each EIX, AIX, 510, 516 and ADX, so they will likely stay in my collection.  Perhaps later I will get the pair of EDX notes certified and try selling one of them.

Steve did a great job explaining the grading process at last month's Waterloo Coin Society meeting.    I checked out some competitor websites for comparasin and was most impressed with Steve's.  The introductory price per Banknote and the fact it's a local company certainly helped to sell the service.

I'm wondering whether the increase in the popularity of certified Banknotes will add to their value and collectability.  I hesitate to have any notes certified that I have paid a premium or market value for only to lose that additional investment.  Any thoughts on that?  I like many collectors still spend most if not all of their numismatic purchases on 'raw' items although I do see the value when it comes to higher end stuff for going with TPGs.

I sent 38 EF/AU/UNC notes to BCS recently in two separate batches and received them back by Fedex three days later. It's hard to beat that sort of service! BCS grading is definitely on the very strict side, but that is not a bad thing. Although the large majority of the assigned grades were the same as my own grades (within one point), several of the best condition notes came back a bit lower than I had expected (e.g., 62/63 instead of 65/66). I did not receive any Gem Unc grades (65 or better) although I had hoped for a few. Perhaps the explanation for this is that my vision is starting to deteriorate as old age approaches! There were a few pressed notes in my submissions and BCS correctly detected all of those. BCS uses the word "Original" to indicate original unprocessed notes. If that word is not present on the holder then you can assume that the note in question has been pressed or processed in some way. Another observation is that a pressed/processed note cannot receive a grade higher than EF, and that is the way it should be.

I possess only one PMG graded note and that is an AU50. It appeared overgraded right from the start so I cut it out and have shown it to about 20 people over the last year. The consensus opinion is that it's a weak EF at the very best. With BCS you can be essentially 100% confident that your note is at least equal to the assigned grade whereas with PMG and some of the other American TPG companies you just cannot have that sort of confidence. In my opinion, it's important for more collectors and dealers to start using BCS (as well as the other Canadian TPG companies, CCGS and CCCS) on a regular basis and get Canadian-slabbed notes into "circulation" at shows, on eBay and elsewhere.

I did notice that on three of my BCS graded notes some foreign material had got inside the holders prior to their being sealed (this is a well-known problem with plastic holders because of static electricity). On one note there was a human hair inside, on another there was a small piece of dark fluff in an unfortunate place, and on the other there was a minute blob of sticky material in the margin of the note (probably emanating from a sticky label). I decided to slit open the holders on these three notes so that the notes can now be inspected in the flesh. I fully realize that this invalidates the opinion printed on the holders but, personally speaking, I still like to be able to inspect my notes in the flesh. In particular, I would be very reluctant to buy an expensive AU/Unc note ($500+) based purely on a TPG assigned grade without inspecting it in the flesh. Based on my observations with BCS, it's clear that one microscopic paper imperfection can in some cases make the difference between a 65/66 and a 62/63 and it's seldom possible to see such an imperfection through double layers of plastic.

All in all I'm very pleased with the service, holder quality and grading accuracy of BCS.

Thank you for sharing this information.

Yes.. thanks for your input on BCS.

I plan to continue to use BCS for any further Grading of my Notes.  I find they are entirely Fair and Strict on the grade they assign a note.

I also like the holders they use and the "Double" note in a holder inside the entire unit.

I am awaiting another batch from them currently although I already know the Assigned grades from the Website lookup tool.  Which is another nice thing BCS Provides.  The ability to lookup Certifications on notes.

The pricing is fair as well as the shipping costs. 

Yes .. thanks for your input on BCS. I plan to continue to use BCS for any further Grading of my Notes.  I find they are entirely Fair and Strict on the grade they assign a note. I also like the holders they use and the "Double" note in a holder inside the entire unit. I am awaiting another batch from them currently although I already know the Assigned grades from the Website lookup tool.  Which is another nice thing BCS Provides.  The ability to lookup Certifications on notes. The pricing is fair as well as the shipping costs.

No doubt about it, the overall processing cost is very fair indeed (just under $13.00 per note for me including return shipping, insurance & GST). However, there are definitely pros and cons to "Strict" grading. Generally speaking, strict grading is good for people who want to buy but not so good for people who want to sell. For example, a "strict" BCS/Charlton grade of AU might well garner an Unc-63 grade at PMG while a strict BCS/Charlton Unc-60 may garner an Unc-64/65 at PMG. I think that's the principal reason why so many Canadian eBay sellers and and online auctioneers opt to send their notes to PMG for grading, plus the fact that American buyers are comfortable with PMG grading standards. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with PMG grading but it must be remembered that PMG employs laxer American grading standards and not the much stricter Canadian standards. I've attached below an image of a typical PMG Choice Unc-64 EPQ, which, in my opinion, would barely receive an Unc-60 rating at BCS.

Another problem with overly strict grading is that dealers and collectors will remove the note from the holder if they feel that it's been significantly undergraded but, needless to say, they will leave it in the holder if they agree with the grading or if they feel that it's been overgraded. Collectors and dealers have been ripping coins out of TPG holders for many years and then resubmitting them in the hopes of obtaining the grade that they feel is appropriate. It's going to start happening with TPG bank notes too, if it hasn't started already .....

In my opinion, it's totally impossible for two sets of grading standards, i.e., one very strict (Canadian) and one very lax (American) to coexist and flourish side by side in the long term. Most unfortunately, the natural human instinct to want to make a profit will ultimately lead to victory of the laxer system over the stricter system and one has only to look at the results of the latest Torex auction (in which virtually all notes were graded by PMG) to confirm this observation.

{http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293040/PMG-64.jpg}

I recently had two consecutive 1954 $5 Beattie Coyne DF notes that I parted with.....
One being graded by BCS as a Ch UNC 63 Original and the other graded by PMG
as  a 66 with EPQ designation.  Both notes were originally purchased through Don Olmstead many, many, many, years ago as original unc.
The PMG note was bought for $550 and the BCS was bought for $450, both to a US buyer that never heard of BCS. He clearly said that he will be sending the BSC note to PMG in hopes that it to will grade a 66 EPQ as did its consecutive partner.
I think that this example clearly shows that no matter what you want to say or think of PMG as a TPG it still is more recognized and demands a greater price according to many dealers I speak too.  As for me, I believe that both notes where as close to being the same as they could be grade wise and felt that the 63 was low, but this is only my opinion. 
FRIEDSQUID

I recently had two consecutive 1954 $5 Beattie Coyne DF notes that I parted with ..... One being graded by BCS as a Ch UNC 63 Original and the other graded by PMG as a 66 with EPQ designation.  Both notes were originally purchased through Don Olmstead many, many, many, years ago as orignal unc. The PMG note was bought for $550 and the BCS was bought for $450, both to a US buyer that never heard of BCS. He clearly said that he will be sending the BSC note to PMG in hopes that it to will grade a 66 EPQ as did its consecutive partner. I think that this example clearly shows that no matter what you want to say or think of PMG as a TPG it still is more recognized and demands a greater price according to many dealers I speak to.  As for me, I believe that both notes were as close to being the same as they could be grade wise and felt that the 63 was low, but this is only my opinion. FRIEDSQUID

That's a very interesting comparison involving clear scientific data and a logical interpretation.

I agree in spades that notes graded by PMG (and by PCGS) will always attract vigorous bidding from US collectors, and will consequently attract higher prices, despite the laxer American grading standards. Surely it's only a matter of time until American (PMG/PCGS) grading standards are widely accepted in Canada, following which the Canadian (Charlton) standards will be forced to merge with the American standards? This is an important issue now that Canadian paper money is such big business in the US. It doesn't really matter which system dominates (strict or lax) but surely for the good of everyone concerned there is room for only one single grading system within North America? Without naming any names, numerous Canadian dealers, Canadian eBay sellers and Canadian auctioneers are now using PMG and PCGS so the writing seems to be on the proverbial wall ... "If you can't beat 'em, then join 'em !"

It is sad that this will be the case.  But I guess that is the American way of things.
It's close enough to GEM UNC so we will call it that.

Its like going to buy a brand new car.   You pick it up after you pay for it and notice  scratches.  One on the hood and one on the trunk to which the dealer says.  "Ahhh don't worry.. its BRAND New MINT".  "You gotta expect some small defects.  Its NEW never been used"

Its just sad that one company has this power to influence the TPG system so much.  I guess that's capitalism for ya..lol.

Now I am not saying all notes graded from PMG have issues but there have been more and more that just aren't GEMs.

I personally think a note with UNC+ Grade is a beautiful thing.  UNC, CUNC, GUNC are just way to make a note worth more in my opinion.   My only concern would be buying an UNC note but really it should be an AU.

Lower grades don't matter as much cause AU+ is where the $$$ is at.

I wonder if BCS will allow us to send back all our previously graded notes if things change down the road.   Lol.. maybe some of my AU's and UNCs will become UNC's and CUNCs..

I wonder if BCS will allow us to send back all our previously graded notes if things change down the road.   Lol..

I'm sure they will...they love repeat customers LOL
But you will be charged....with no guarantees