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Topic: Replacement in replacement?  (Read 3324 times)
copperpete
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« on: August 24, 2008, 04:52:53 pm »

I got BTL3194450-494  (FP#74/BP#56) replacing BTM5069372-416 (74/56) (from a brick) , but there was a little surprise:  I found BTL3199002 (74/56) in the place of BTL3194469.  A replacement in a replacement, but in the same range....  Strange...  And more, the position numbers were the same, telling me that this range has a skip number at least 6000. 

If I'm remember well, the combination FP#74/BP#56 is one of those found in the so-called "mini-ream", isn't it?...

Question:  has some had already found a such occurence (replacement in replacement) ?...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 05:01:56 pm by copperpete »

friedsquid
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 08:35:35 pm »

I have had it happen before twice in the AOV's and once in AOT's.
I assume that replacements can be damaged as easily as a regular note.
FRIEDSQUID



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Hudson A B
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 01:53:19 am »

I got BTL3194450-494  (FP#74/BP#56) replacing BTM5069372-416 (74/56) (from a brick) , but there was a little surprise:  I found BTL3199002 (74/56) in the place of BTL3194469.  A replacement in a replacement, but in the same range....  Strange...  And more, the position numbers were the same, telling me that this range has a skip number at least 6000. 

If I'm remember well, the combination FP#74/BP#56 is one of those found in the so-called "mini-ream", isn't it?...

Question:  has some had already found a such occurence (replacement in replacement) ?...

Hi, thanks for this post.  This is a very important thing to address.
a) Replacements within a replacement? Yes this can happen.

b) These would all be from column 5 of a sheet, according to the current standard matrix.  Having BTL replacements that are from bricks 5000 apart (but replaced into one brick) tells us two things:
1) It is indeterminable if they are SNRs or sheet replacements.
If SNRs, the it would be likely a serial number span of 20,000.  That's right, 20,000.
the LCM of 5 and 4 (which is what the superbricks come packaged in) is 20.  No one has yet to confirm a find where the superbrick had a first brick that started with anything other than a perfect multiple of 4. 
Reasoning: Because there is 5 columns, one would have to count all 5 bricks, in each row 3194 and 3199 = 10 bricks.  We know that if the two ranges here are SNRs, then it is impossible for the remaining 4 positions of the row to be SHEET replacements.  They are either NOT replacements at all (would have to study neighboring bricks) or they are mini-ream replacements.  Assuming the neighbouring bricks show is that the two ranges are DISJOINT, then we have two distinct ranges.  However, if the study of adjacent bricks shows them to be joint (see my posts on ALL $20s, still unconfirmed, arg!...), then the minimum would be 20,000.

2) If SNR OR Sheet replacement (5000 mini sheet):
If we include the two rows, totalling 10 bricks, then what that does is stagger the super brick package.  It would imply that since 10 =  2 module 4, there would be a staggering within the superbrick bag packages by 2 brick positions (or a 2000 serial number count).

HOWEVER: There has yet to be a confirmed finding of any super-brick package to ever be found with this type of staggering.  Meaning, the staggering must continue to some point such that the staggering brings itself back to a point of 0 modulo 4.
As a result of this, we know that simply 10 bricks of replacements is not possible (since it throws off the super brick packages).  The lowest number of bricks needed in order to resume the 0 modulo 4 package set-up, would be 20 bricks of replacements, or a range of 20,000.

c) This special case is applicable in this case because the replacements and the mother brick are all from the mini-ream.  Just like my find with the ALL Journey $20s, which have stil to this day gone unconfirmed.
*****
To make a direct call on this situation (SNR or Sheet), the data set for adjoining bricks in nearly every direction would need to be closely analyzed.

If this reads like a bunch of greek, just email me and I will try to help straighten things out. It's late and I can't sleep.

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Punkys Dad
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2008, 02:56:34 am »

Hud says to keep it..... I think:P

Teeny guy on my shoulder sez, It's only money mon
Hudson A B
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2008, 02:00:44 pm »

Yeah lol.
Keep it, but count it as nothing more special than the other replacements found within that brick.

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copperpete
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2008, 07:29:00 pm »

Already put apart.  I'm eager to see if my next brick will have a serial very near from this one (5080*** to 5120*** for instance).  It would be very interesting to see in which range the replacements will be (if it has any)....

Hudson A B
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2008, 10:17:55 pm »

copperpete, if you are able to get blocks of 4, maybe now would be a good time to ask...  you can legitimately tell them that there is some serious (possibly groundbreaking) data that could be taken from the bricks that are coming in.

Would be nice if the teller/head teller said 'sure no problem, this must be important!'

H
 :)

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friedsquid
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2008, 10:24:00 pm »

Quote
Would be nice if the teller/head teller said 'sure no problem, this must be important!'

HAHAHAHAHAH now that is funny ;D   Like that would ever happen



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
copperpete
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2008, 08:43:46 pm »

Sorry, but my order is already on its way... :-\,

Moreover, I don't have 40k$ available to order a block... :-\ :-\

copperpete
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2008, 01:00:53 pm »

I got my brick:  BTM5071000 (FP#96/BP#84) (just 2 bricks away):  Replacement found:  NONE :-\ :-\

In the absence of more data, I don't know what conclusion I can draw from this... ???

Incidenlly, since it's my 500th post, I'm now a forum's very senior member ;) ;)

Hudson A B
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2008, 03:10:47 pm »

I got my brick:  BTM5071000 (FP#96/BP#84) (just 2 bricks away):  Replacement found:  NONE :-\ :-\

In the absence of more data, I don't know what conclusion I can draw from this... ???
We can draw some info from this:

5069 would have been column 5 of the matrix.
5071 is column 2 of the matrix. 

Since we are dealing with different rows, we cannot rule out that they are replaced by the "mini sheet"
For Example: Bricks 5065, 5066, 5067, 5068, 5069 MIGHT all have the same area of notes replaced.
What is certain is that it is not a 40,000 sheet replacement range, otherwise the 5071 would echo the same insert find as the 5069.

So, we are down to SNRs. What now is unknown, is the size of the SNR range. 

If bricks 5065, 5066, 5067, 5068, 5069 all showed identical replacements, and we had zero replacements in 5071, then the replacements would be a SHEET range, of 5000.  That is, a Mini ream of sheet replacements notes.  At this point, we do not have data on 4 of the 5 bricks of this row from the mini ream.

Likewise, if bricks 5065, 5068, 5069 all showed identical replacements, and we had zero replacements in 5071, then the replacements would be LIKELY BE a SHEET range, of 5000. 

However, if bricks 5065, 5067, 5068, 5069 all showed identical replacements, BUT 5066 showed a totally different set, then would have to rule out Sheet altogether, forcing them to then be SNRs.

Okay: of this case, we know it is not a SHEET 40/on replacement group.  It is either SNRs that are single, or a grouping (depending on the other bricks of the mini ream row) of 5000 replacements at minimum.

The safest position at this time, is 1000.


CP: Congrats on the new title :-)

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bc collect
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2009, 05:55:59 pm »

What about of the past were collectors had bricks that ranged over 20,000 to 200.000 in a single brick.  ???
Hudson A B
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2009, 09:10:46 pm »

That kind of stuff all depends on who the printing company is, and what the ream size.

Like sometimes, within one ream, there could be a difference in serial number that would spell out to be nearly 360,000 (because the ream size is 360,000 notes.


They could have a set of matching replacements in them.
It is pretty far out stuff. Check the website on my profile to read more.  There are lots of posts from 06-07 that address that as well.

take care-
Huds

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friedsquid
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2009, 09:44:53 pm »

Quote
Check the website on my profile to read more.
Hey Hudson.....do you have a website.....I haven't seen it up for a long long time?
Am I looking in the wrong place?
FRIEDSQUID



Always looking for #1 serial number notes in any denomination/any series
 

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